So it begins, 90G build thread

[carb850]

I am planning to use a gate valve before the skimmer to control how much flow it gets. My estimate of 150 GPH can and will vary from that.

I only mentioned the pump size because whatever overflow that my skimmer doesn't take will go into my refugium. It is my understanding that you don't want too much flow through your refugium. So, if my return pump give me 500 GPH at 5' (just a made up number), then I'm estimating my skimmer will take about 150 GPH plus or minus, then the remaining 350 GPH will be running through my fuge. If that number is too high, then I should consider a smaller return and vice versa. Another piece of that equation, will be knowing how many gallons my fuge holds so then I could estimate the turnover rate in it. At the moment, I don't know what size sump I will be running.

Kicking out some numbers, say I use a 29G sump and 20G will be actually in the refuge area, that would be about 17X turnover in my refuge. I don't know if that would be too much or not.

[radone]

I'm running around 200gph trough my refuge and and it works great.
Basically my refuge is a chopped down 20L, I'm feeding my skimmer and my fuge from the one overflow then the it returns to the sump. I also have another overflow going directly to my sump

[carb850]

Originally posted by radone
That would depend on what your going to keep
If your going softies and LPS you might want to re-think that

Gotta agree with Jim though if your going with the Tunzes, I would go with two 6101's

That would give you good flow for even SPS

Since I never keep corals before, a lot of what I keep will come down to what I can keep (alive that is). I would like to keep a mixed reef tank with Ricoridia, Mushrooms, and Zoanthids in the bottom; some LPS in the middle; then SPS up near the top.

I fear my biggest problem with SPS will be Calcium, I really don't want to get a calcium reactor. Maybe down the road my mind will change on that, but for now that is further than I want to go. With only having SPS in the top of the tank, could I get by with manually dosing Calcium? Would water changes alone provide enough?

I evenutally want to get a pair of 6101's and a multicontroller, but at this point it will cost me about $500 more than the single. So I hoped I could do the single Tunze while the tank is maturing. Then 6-12 months from now add a second Tunze and a wave controller. My only loss will be reselling the single controller and I bet I would only lose $25 on it.

[carb850]

Originally posted by radone
I'm running around 200gph trough my refuge and and it works great.
Basically my refuge is a chopped down 20L, I'm feeding my skimmer and my fuge from the one overflow then the it returns to the sump. I also have another overflow going directly to my sump

If your running an external skimmer and a remote refugium, what all equipment do you have in your sump?

[radone]

I've got my skimmer in my sump, heaters, and more rock

[radone]

I've dosed Randy's Two-Part for a year before getting my calcium reactor
The Two-Part works fine as long as your consistent with the maintenance. Another reason for a reactor is the larger systems it's harder to keep up with the dosing.
What salt do you plan on using will also depend on your dosing requirements.
All salts have their pro's and cons but availabilty is the most important to me. I also like to use what my friends close by use in-case something happens I've got a backup per/say

[carb850]

Mini update with a few pictures.




Tank awaiting all of his other equipment buddies to show up.






Package that arrived to work today.







Contents

[phljess]

Originally posted by carb850
Since I never keep corals before, a lot of what I keep will come down to what I can keep (alive that is). I would like to keep a mixed reef tank with Ricoridia, Mushrooms, and Zoanthids in the bottom; some LPS in the middle; then SPS up near the top.

I fear my biggest problem with SPS will be Calcium, I really don't want to get a calcium reactor. Maybe down the road my mind will change on that, but for now that is further than I want to go. With only having SPS in the top of the tank, could I get by with manually dosing Calcium? Would water changes alone provide enough?

I evenutally want to get a pair of 6101's and a multicontroller, but at this point it will cost me about $500 more than the single. So I hoped I could do the single Tunze while the tank is maturing. Then 6-12 months from now add a second Tunze and a wave controller. My only loss will be reselling the single controller and I bet I would only lose $25 on it.

I would not run a mixed reef. It is very difficult to meet all the needs of the various coral. I would either focus on a softy/LPS tank or an SPS tank. Their needs just contrast too much to be successful in the long run. If I were a beginner, I would probably start soft coral and LPS. They are much more forgiving than SPS. They also cost much less to maintain.

[MattG]

I have the same skimmer; you will love it!

[fishmon]

Originally posted by MattG
I have the same skimmer; you will love it!

On a 30 gallon!

[coralreefer]

Originally posted by fishmon
On a 30 gallon!

You know Matt believes in efficient skimming

I fear my biggest problem with SPS will be Calcium, I really don't want to get a calcium reactor. Maybe down the road my mind will change on that, but for now that is further than I want to go. With only having SPS in the top of the tank, could I get by with manually dosing Calcium? Would water changes alone provide enough?

Like Radone said you can easily dose two part to maintain calcium and alkalinity especially in a tank your size.
Don't forget you can't supplement calcium alone. Alkalinity is as important, if not more, than calcium. That's why you need to replenish both in a balanced fashion using either a 2-pt, Kalk, or a reactor.

[carb850]

So what other equipment should I be looking into for this setup? I plan on doing a Tunze Osmolator. I thought about a Phosphate reactor and a Kalk reactor. Are these must haves? Am I missing any other key components?

[firefish2020]

I keep a P04 reactor just in case I need to run some Phos remover or carbon they are a handy thing to have on hand in emergency situations. I always recomend a kalk reactor and eventually a Co2 reactor but thats just me.

[MattG]

I would recommend basically what you said.

- A topoff unit will make life easy (osmolator would be my only recommendation here).

- A fluidized reactor - Not required but makes it easy to run media. You can run carbon or po4 remover or whatever u want. I have a deltec fr509 that I run carbon constantly in. The deltec unit is definitely overkill. There are many other options that are more reasonably priced and will functionally work just as well. The one thing that is great about the deltec unit is the top comes off with a simple twist (no thumbscrews) so changing the media frequently is a breeze. You will want to run carbon in a mixed reef to keep the allelopathy in check. Mixed reefs can be very tricky.

Kalk reactor - Once again not required but i would recommend it. Tons of options here. Reeftek and Geo are good units at a reasonable cost. If i was to buy a unit for a tank your size i would also take a look at the aquamedic unit. I have no personal experience with the aquamedic though.

I personally wouldn't bother with a calcium reactor unless you start hitting SPS hard. For now, regular water changes will be just fine. You can always give a little bump once in a while with two part if its needed.

It sounds like with the addition of the tunze stream you are going to have a killer setup. I would personally stick with just the single 6101 if you plan on having lps in the tank. Even then, placement of your lps can be tricky. Your koralia will work fine in the mix also.

Also i have found that the a110 works best with about 100 gph drain fed. Any more and the turbulence in the skimmer affects performance. Your mileage may vary.

[carb850]

If I were to run carbon and po4 remover in a medium sized fluid reactor, how often would it need to be changed? I know it can vary depending upon conditions, I just looking for a ballpark. Once every couple days, weekly, monthly? Also, most I'm seeing do not include a pump. Do you just need a small Maxi-Jet to feed these guys?

The concept of a Kalkwasser Reactor is still not completely clear to me. It raises your Alk level which stabilizes Ph, right? I know you can tie this into the ATO and have it dripped into your tank. However, over time will this put too much Alk into the system? Over months?

Also, how does a controller come into play with the Kalkwasser Reactor? I assume with Ph probes it can detect when more Kalkwasser is needed, but it will only turn on the reactor when needed? If you use a controller, should it still be ran through the ATO?

[MattG]

I use 1/2 a cup of carbon changed 2 times a month. This is more then probably needed on my 30 cube. I would say the same would work well for you on a 90. You want to change the carbon somewhat regularly as it will trap detritus and other crud even with an upflow design. I haven't seen any reactors that come with a pump. I use a small pump ~100 gph for mine and it works well.

Kalkwasser is a balanced supplement meaning it adds calcium and alkalinity in the appropriate proportions. The ph of saturated kalkwasser is 12.0+ so it needs to be added slowly. Tieing a kalkwasser reactor into a tunze osmolator works wonderfully. Kalkwasser is a weak supplement so it will not raise your calcium and alk to high levels. Its more of a maintenance item. Your tank will most likely consume ca/alk at the same pace or faster then the kalkwasser adds so no real worries about over dosing . The concern with over dosing is PH.

A controller can come into play in a few ways. If its an aquarium controller you can use it to turn the pump on the reactor on and off at set intervals. Whether or not you need this depends on the type of reactor you have. Some reactors use a small pump to mix the kalkwasser. These usually come on for 5 minutes a couple times a day to keep the topoff water fully saturated with kalkwasser. Using a controller in this instance has nothing to do with the amount of kalk dosed into your aquarium. The same thing can be accomplished with a simple timer. All it does is turn the pump on the reactor on and off to keep the kalkwasser saturated.

Some reactors (deltec and aquamedic) use a bar that rotates very slowly 24/7 slow enough to keep the kalkwasser powder from being dosed into the aquarium. These types do not use a timer

The other way you can use a controller is with a ph probe. You can put the probe into the aquarium and have it shut off the dosing if the ph gets to high. In this case if the ph gets to high the topoff unit will stop dosing kalkwasser and prevent a ph spike or course this will also shut off your topoff unit. Basically this is a back up for your auto topoff unit malfunctioning and over dosing kalk.

The controller doesn't decide the amount of kalk used. The amount of evaporated water does. Hopefully this is clear. If not just say what isnt and im sure we can straighten it out.

[radone]

Mike,
This is why I recommend the 1262, you can run other equipment with the added output

[carb850]

That does clear it up. I didn't understand how the ATO would still work if the Kalkwasswer reactor was shut down. Since it shuts both down, that does make since. For the plumbing, do you run the Kalkwasser through the reactor or does it 'T' into the ATO line?

BTW, MattG do you have a copy of the instructions for the skimmer? If so, do you have the ability to scan it for me?

[MattG]

The pump that is used for autotopoff pumps freshwater directly to the reactor. Then a piece of tubing goes from the reactor to your aquarium. As water is pumped into the reactor the same amount of saturated kalkwasser water is displaced from the reactor to your aquarium. There is no T involved.

I don't have a copy of the instructions for the skimmer you might try the finsreef forum. If i recall they were less then a page and not much help.

[carb850]

Originally posted by radone
Mike,
This is why I recommend the 1262, you can run other equipment with the added output

My only issue with the 1262 is that it might be too much flow. What other equipment would you suggest I run with the added output.

It sounds like a single Maxi-Jet 600 would be enough for the fluid reactor. The osmolator would drive the Kalkwasser reactor from my understanding.

[radone]

My return is a Dart, therefore I have 4 1" returns to the tank, I also feed my CA Reactor and 2 TLF phosban reactors. Still need to hook the chiller into the loop but location is something I need to work out.

Basically what I'm saying is even though you have an Eheim 1262 and the flow might be more than your return can handle you still have the ability to feed other equipment with only one pump. Drawback here is if that pump craps out you'll be left DIW. If it were me I'd get a back-up pump later down the road.
As for ATO I use a 30 gallon barrel and that is my "kalk reactor", I top-off at night when my pH drops, I don't have this tied into my controller yet but will eventually. Like Matt said if you add water the saturated goes to your tank.
A kalk reactor can go in the sump or external if you wish, most people I know dose kalk and supplement with a CA Reactor or 2-Part.
Kalk is not a significant source of calcium or alkalinity but will raise or lower your pH depending on the 2-part formula used.
BTW if your good with a soldering iron I have the plans for an ATO,mines been running a couple of years now without a problem (This is where you can save yourself some $$$) I think I have about $40.00 in mine


HTH

[firefish2020]

Just be careful, DIYs are great but when it comes to critical pieces of equipment like an ATO you want 0 to close to 0 as you can get failure points. Saving $100 dollars or more sounds great right now but when you weigh that savings against the cost of a major catastrophe in your tank that could cost you thousands of dollars that $100 or so is just isn't that bad of a price IMO. Just some friendly advice you don't want an overflow incident or at least you want a way to stop it if it does occur.

[radone]

So true Ron that's why I have my ATO on a timer and my controller controls the timer. Backup to a backup

[LtPiper]

I just have a small ATO tank that even if it runs it dry it will top the tank out just shy of overflowing.

[firefish2020]

Yep make sure you have backups for backups and you should be fine. But remember this, somethign will eventually fail no matter what steps you take, were here to help when it does.