Club Frag Tank

vvolfe1 · #1 10/17/2007, 07:46 PM

I think this would is a great idea. I read it in another thread and thought it'd be better in its own.

Here is my Ideas on it. I't probably be best to have a few. Most members seem to be from 3 or 4 areas so why not have area tanks. It have to be at someones place that would be willing to basically sponsor the tank. Set up a time limit on the tank to grow out the corals. Set put and take standards on tank contents. Or after a certain amount of time have a frag auction with the corals. The sponsor would of course be paid in frags for thier caretaking. Have to have some sort of photo growth progress thread or threads to see which areas tank looks the best. Another thing I think would be cool is to send out a few different corals to people with different lighting and see what morphs would come from different light spectrums.

Atticus · #2 10/17/2007, 07:49 PM

Like was posted in the other thread. We need to keep it simple. The idea of the club buying colonies, fragging them, and sending them off to different members covers all of the bases you mention without the need for "club tanks" and there would be far less headaches. We just need to keep it as simple as possible and it will be very successful.

glaspie69 · #3 10/17/2007, 07:58 PM

I think it would just end up a bad deal, buying colonies and breaking them up sounds like a much easier ordeal. Theres just to much politics and effort in keeping this type of tank, not to mention money.

xroads · #4 10/17/2007, 08:36 PM

Instead of breaking up the colonies as soon as we get them, I think we have enough responsible members to host the colony, and then frag it for the club. I also think we need to make sure we are getting corals for every level, sps, lsp, zooms & shrooms.

just my 2C

bgreenlee · #5 10/17/2007, 11:00 PM

Jason

I think we can avoid a lot of the problems by managing the program consistently. I don't know if you have read any on how the group Travis and I mentioned works, but they seem to be able to do this pretty well, and they have a lot bigger group then we do. Probably the best way to get this going is for a few of us to just go ahead and donate some frags to get this started that wasy the club is not out any money initially. That will allow us to get it rolling and see what we think, if it tanks no harm no foul.

I don't think we necessarily need to set up extra tanks or anything else that would add a bunch of cost for anyone. I know several of us have system capacity to allow for a handful of frags for grow out and further fragging (of course JJ could run a store out of his fishroom). I would be happy to take part in this and even have a few coral frags that I would be willing to donate in the name of GIRS and I am willing to start donating frags at the swaps to help get this started. Once I am fully up and running in the basement fish room I would even consider adding a 20 l or something similar specifically for the GIRS frags. I figure another 175w light can't raise my electric bill enough to matter.

The only requirement I would suggest is for people to share the informtion about their systems so that we know they have the correct system for what they are getting.

Billy

Atticus · #6 10/18/2007, 12:07 AM

Tinytool actually already offered a Large Slimer if someone wants to start this out at the swap. Sell a frag or two and send some frags home with a bunch of members. The only thing we would need to do is keep a registry of where the coral came from and who got it. That allows us to track it and keep things as fair as possible. If you want I would be willing to help organize this. I would just need to draw up a few forms and then start collecting everyone's tank info. Maybe I can sucker Billy into helping me out, especially with getting the details out of the other group.

leeweber85 · #7 10/18/2007, 12:16 AM

I agree with Craig, we should have a few different types and not just sps... maybe some acans or blastos, sps, and some cool/rare softies. The club could buy the corals and we could nominate/volunteer the homes for them... If more than one person wanted to house a particular coral, we could have a vote or drawing to decide who gets it.

Atticus · #8 10/18/2007, 12:39 AM

The problem with votes is they are just popularity contests too political. Drawings place corals in tanks they maybe should not be in. We will work out a fair way to distribute them and make sure they end up in qualified homes. I already have 2 softies I would be willing to add to the clubs collection. I have a green polyped lettuce/crown leather that came from a fellow club member years ago (HOC) and a green polyped toadstool leather. I also have a pink/red frogspawn that I have to get to someone else as I have never seen another one like it. We will make this work. I just need the board's approval to get this started and if we can get this going by the swap even better.

tibbs2 · #9 10/18/2007, 05:12 PM

This sounds like a good idea as long as we can keep it fair and eliminate any bias.

We just need a tank qualifications doc for each coral bought this way or each type of coral, lps, sps, softies. The tank of the name drawn will have to meet this qualification or another name will be drawn.

I would also recommend doing this in three regions, Des Moines, Iowa City area and Quad City area to make it easier for everyone to pick up the corals. If that is too much, then we can probably arrange the coral to be shipped.

Or maybe we just do the drawings monthly, at club meetings and you have to be there to pick it up.

Atticus · #10 10/18/2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tibbs2
This sounds like a good idea as long as we can keep it fair and eliminate any bias.

We just need a tank qualifications doc for each coral bought this way or each type of coral, lps, sps, softies. The tank of the name drawn will have to meet this qualification or another name will be drawn.

Side note... As I am volunteering for this I realized last night there might be an issue that I want to nip in the bud. If I am allowed to organize this it would not mean I handle or what to handle the corals. We will have the people in charge of the coral handle the splitting of it. I have a more detailed idea that I am willing to draw up when I get the go ahead. Just wanted to clear up that whom ever is in charge would not need to even see a coral to make this run smoothly.

I would suggest a slight bias as to who gets the corals based on participation in the program. If you donate to the program, you should get more from the program, but every member will still get a fair shake and if they didn't get the coral they wanted the first time around they will be able to get it as a frag from one of the originals. That is why this will work so smoothly.

I know we are all pumped about this idea and I can't wait to see it rolling.

musty baby · #11 10/19/2007, 10:02 AM

Sorry to be the skeptic, but if this is to get off the ground it should have a very clearly written out plan detailing every fathomable disagreement/problem and how it is to be handled, or I can see all kinds of problems stemming from it. You have to have something to point to and say "this is why things were handled in this way" if problems arise.

I would not like to see club funds going toward purchasing corals. Maintaining and propagating the corals that our members have? Cool. Definitely a great idea if the kinks can get worked out. I'd take part in it if I felt it was well outlined.

I'm sure you've probably already thought of most of the problems that might arise, I just think it is necessary to address the foreseeable problems before we start into this.

Not a bad idea, but let's not rush into it.

annamarie421 · #12 10/19/2007, 11:11 AM

I might have a tank to donate to this cause, should the club go forward with it. If one of the board members would like to contact me about it, feel free.

Anna

annamarie421 · #13 10/19/2007, 11:19 AM

Doh! I usually read an entire thread before posting... Guess the club won't need a tank donated if there won't be a club frag tank... Sorry about that!

Anna

xroads · #14 10/19/2007, 11:31 AM

here is my simple plan.

Club buys four items & places them in 4 tanks of BOD choice. An SPS, LSP, zoa/ric, and a cool macro algae. The coral would become the property of the tank owner after 36 frags were produced. 1 or 2 per month. These frags would be brought to events to be raffled, or sold at a GIRS table at swaps. Or given away any way the club members think. The people that want to donate existing frags could be rewarded other ways such as free dues, free picks at swaps, or so on.

These are exciting ideas. I am sure we can come up with something everyone can agree on and be as politically correct as possible.

Thx
Craig

jtesdall · #15 10/19/2007, 03:40 PM

This is a great idea! What a wonderful draw this can be for new membership.

After this weeks argument, I agree with Ryan H. We need to have the rules outlined on the GIRS website. Problem here is, I have worked on many corporate contracts, you never think of everything. But getting most things written will solve many problems.

I vote we give atticus the go ahead. I am not an officer or board member. Just a flunky giving my opinion. ;0)

xroads · #16 10/19/2007, 03:56 PM

I dont think we should put all of our eggs in one basket though

Atticus · #17 10/19/2007, 05:56 PM

I have sent my plan to Jason and he is taking it to the board. We would keep the rules very simple and I have addressed as many loop holes or areas that could cause whinning or bickering that I could think of.

The short version:
Coral is purchased or donated

The coral is then issued a club form that would indicate where it came from and would list all members frags were distributed to.

Details for that particular coral would also be included on this sheet outlining the rules and expectations from the club to those interested in a frag. (If future frag donations were required it would be listed here)

Frags would be available at the next meeting.

Distribution of coral frags would be limited to those able to obtain their frag in a reasonable manner from the meeting. (No SHIPPING just too expensive, too much of a hassel and too risky in many cases.)

Frags would be distributed in a fair manner that I would rather not discuss in an open forum at this time as I know it will be the most heated topic. I want to see a few more examples of how other clubs do this and I want to get it drawn up first. Then it will be opened for public discussion and viewing. Most likely on our own website.

The only type of bias I would like to add to the frag distribution process is to benefit those that donate to the program. You donate a coral you should get a little more back than those that have not, but everyone wanting to participate will still recieve a fair share. This should help promote donation from members and keep the program exciting.

So, there it is. My main goal in designing this was to keep it easy and to design something that anyone could run. If I start it all I would do is collect information. I would not even need to touch a coral to make this work. Again this was just an update and is not a final draft by any means.

If you have questions or suggestions please send them to me via pm as I would rather not see this pick up any undue drama.

Atticus · #18 10/19/2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xroads
I dont think we should put all of our eggs in one basket though

Doh, I knew I forgot to cover a base. This would not allow all club corals to be in one tank or one "basket" as it were. Those willing to donate would be incharge of their coral until it was distributed. If the club made a purchase the purchase would arrive the day of the meeting and be fragged at that time. I understand that many are afraid of increased stress to the coral, but I don't see us lossing 5-10 frags due to stress and I would be more afraid of lossing the whole thing if we tried to acclimate it first.

A good example of this is the purple cap Billy and I split. I brought it home and split it that day. The two frags sat side by side for 3 weeks and then one suddenly RTN'd partially and I had to frag it again. This stopped the RTN. The other half was never affected. If I would have left them together I could have lost that whole coral overnight.

xroads · #19 10/19/2007, 08:01 PM

I can't wait!

glaspie69 · #20 10/19/2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus
Those willing to donate would be incharge of their coral until it was distributed. If the club made a purchase the purchase would arrive the day of the meeting and be fragged at that time. I understand that many are afraid of increased stress to the coral, but I don't see us lossing 5-10 frags due to stress and I would be more afraid of lossing the whole thing if we tried to acclimate it first.

I hate to be the grinch but whats the difference between this program and just selling frags. I've got no problem with donating corals and helping the club but, this whole thing seems to be alittle strange to me. Heres my view on it: I would grow the coral using my lights, power, salt...etc. Then when requested i would frag it and give it away, after giving the frag away i would receive a frag in exchange? How would the cost of these frags be monitored? If i have a $50 dollar frag would i get a $50 dollar frag back? What if there aren't any $50 frags? Don't get me wrong it's not all about the money but it seems to me that this design is based on everyone giving frags away, after awhile everyone is going to have the same corals and not know what to do with them. This is going to sound kinda bad but it's the only way i could think of, it's a supply and demand basis, if we start flooding the market with tons of free frags there won't be a market, if theres no market people will start loosing interest and with that people won't want in the hobby anymore. Now i know thats a large hypothetical but you get the point.

As for the buying, breaking and spliting....... Personally won't see this happen as president. It's bad husbandry and I want no part in it. Corals need to be Quarantined, checked and treated, and left alone enough to frag before fragging.

glaspie69 · #21 10/19/2007, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xroads
here is my simple plan.

The coral would become the property of the tank owner after 36 frags were produced. 1 or 2 per month.

Again not to be the grinch again but if your dealing with sps, lps, some zoos or even rics you'd be lucky to get one frag a month many even 1 every two months.

Atticus · #22 10/20/2007, 12:14 AM

I believe the fastest killer of interest in this hobby is lack of funding and a lack of change/excitment. This program would get otherwise unobtainable frags into people's hands, support a sharing community, and would allow us to bring in more rare items through the club fund pool. Those rare items would then be split to multiple members making them more likely to survive and be accessable to everyone in our area. Before the first few people with the bank roll and desire brought blue torts, bonsai, and sunset montis into the area we could only dream of having these corals. Now they are here. Many people have recieved frags of these corals and now the coral will not be lost to the club/state if it happens to die in one person's tank. It is like tank insurance where everyone benefits.

As for bad husbandry, I believe I already explained my view on that topic. It can't be that much more stressful for a coral to be broken once it arrives. Heck it has been ripped from the reef, shipped to a wholesaler, shipped to a retailer, shipped to you, and still survived. I also believe it is each individuals responsibility to have a QT tank of their own and QT anything before they put it into their system.

I believe this is an idea that is above one individual's decision. I believe it should be put to a popular vote. The positive benefits of this program for the group far out weigh the possible loss of financial gain by a few individuals.

bgreenlee · #23 10/20/2007, 12:55 AM

I am really surprised by the amount of opposition here. We are trying to improve availability of rare or expensive corals for the entire club. I know that not everyone on here can afford a couple hundred dollars to get some rare coral, and being able to get those into our hand seems to be a huge benefit for me.

I would suggest that a group of us put this together outside of GIRS. We can then choose how to manage this, choose how to distribute/sell frags, and contain it to only those people who want to be a part of it. Once fully established we can just rent a table at the frag swaps and/or sell at the auctions as any other party could. If we can get a few members at the onset of this to either donate a little money, frags, space, time, or any mix of the four I think we can make it work.

As far as wanting anything for rearing corals in my tank, I already have all the equipment running, already do a set amount of water changes, and do all the necessary items for proper husbandry anyway, the value of enjoying the beauty of the coral far outweighs the cost to maintain it in my eyes.

Atticus · #24 10/20/2007, 01:20 AM

BILLY YOU READ MY FREAKIN MIND!!! or my other post... LOL

I am willing to do this offline from the main club if we have to. There is just too much of a benefit.

jtesdall · #25 10/20/2007, 01:52 AM

I guess I don't see why not do it as a club activity??? We are a reef society after all. It seems this has benefits including a draw for new membership. If we don't want to buy and immediately frag, fine. Then we can buy, QT, grow out and frag. Whatever the right way to do it is. It might be worth posting on one of the clubs forums that have tried this to find out the pitfalls they have run into. We might find it is a huge success or that it really doesn't work well. Atticus, you may have already done this.

Maybe club funds shouldn't go into buying colonies, but maybe the members interested could go in. I guess that is the same as doing it outside the club but I think it would be good to be sponsored by GIRS as a benefit of being in the club.

Maybe someone should put a survey up on this topic.