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  #101  
Old 07/23/2007, 03:53 PM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Good pic of the long distance hitchhikers Laurent. How are things going?
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  #102  
Old 07/23/2007, 07:21 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 26 - Monday 23rd - Around 5pm

Finally a little update after a long and busy weekend... Went to see Earth, Wind & Fire in concert... Very cool...

Thanks ReefMack for the 100th post on this thread

- Green Hairy Algea is blooming everywhere, sand, rock, glass, plastic... My six astrea are doing a great job but they are obviously overwhelmed. I have to clean the glass everyday if I want to see something inside the tank! Snail poop is everywhere too and gently turkey basting the rocks creates a "poopstorm"... Green algae is also sometimes covered with brown stuff or the cyano slimy red... Yes, my tank look very ugly indeed.

- I tested for NO2 (nitrites) yesterday night and again I had a non-zero reading. Therefore today I made a 7 gallons water change, that's 20% again. It seems to me that I have such a massive amount of decaying crap from the live rocks that I will need to do even more in the near future.

- I can see a few pods, here and there...

- One of my Astrea has not moved since two days, two other ceriths snails that were very active are now just still since one day. I am a bit worried that the high nitrates and non-zero nitrites are going to take a toll on my cleanup workers...

- Bubbles, plenty of bubbles. Something is probably going wrong in the filtration chamber . I will update maybe later tonight.

Thanks all for visiting and continuous advice.
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  #103  
Old 07/23/2007, 08:37 PM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Hi Laurent - I did'nt realize I got number 100 - I'm not even sure how to tell that? Duh on me!

The "poop storm" comment shows you still have a sense of humor in spite of what you're going through. You may want to check some of those non-moving snails - if they died they'll just contribute more ammonia, nitrites & nitrates. If they're dead they will stink so badly you'll be lucky if you don't vomit on the spot, so don't smell them close! I'm not sure what the bubbles are from, unless it's a temporary thing from dropping the water level during water changes and getting air in the pumps or powerheads. If the skimmer is putting out a lot of wet skimmate try cutting the air to get a dryer foam & maybe that will help with the bubbles.
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  #104  
Old 07/23/2007, 11:38 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Late night update...

- Yes, ReefMack, once again, is right... Bubbles settled down a few hours after the water change. They are now back to the standard RSM annoying level, I guess.

- My "sick" snails have been moving a bit after the water change. Hopefully, they liked it. At least, they are not dead.

- Nitrites are back to zero a few hours after the water change. Nitrates are about 75ppm. This is certainly high enough to explain my algae issues.

- Skimmer had a very slow start after the water change and cleaning and is now back into big business...

- My preliminary conclusion is that second massive water change has been somewhat positive and that I should continue to do so until I get decent water quality. Please experienced reefers comment on this.

- I will post pictures tomorrow.
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  #105  
Old 07/24/2007, 06:43 AM
GDESQUIRE GDESQUIRE is offline
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Laurent: The high nitrate reading explains the algae issues. The goood news is that your tank went through a nice cycle. My suggestion: Take a strong pump and blast all of the rocks. This will help remove any dead material that's hidden in the rock crevices and any that are under or behind the rocks. You will be amazed at the amount of cr*p that comes off the rocks. After everything settles, clean the sponge and vacumn the substrate with a hose getting rid of that water. Repeat again. Then do a 30% water change. Don't be afraid of large water changes so long as the salinity and temp are the same. After a day add a large number of hermits and snails. Can't tell you how inportant they are.
  #106  
Old 07/24/2007, 07:25 AM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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I agree - it may be a PITA but the water changes now will get the nitrates down & help with everything. Good news that the snails didn't get "stinky"! More CUC sounds like a good idea too.
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  #107  
Old 07/25/2007, 01:20 AM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 27 - Tuesday July 24th - Around 11pm

- I came back from work to find out that the tank was all white with bubbles. The water went so low in the filter chamber and both pumps were just pumping air... I cleant the mechanical filters again and finally did what apparently all RSM owner do: cut the black foam piece in half. I also had to clean the hood, covered with salt from the bubbles...

- Green hair algea is still growing amazingly fast. Even growing on the shells of the snails... GHA respects nothing at all.

- No "pods" at all.

- My previously sick snails are sick again - three of them almost not moving at all. I tested nitrites again and got a 0.1ppm reading, bad bad bad...

- I will follow GDEsquire advice and do the cleaning followed by 30% "massive" water change tomorrow. I am a bit concerned about introducing more snails if they are all going to die due to very low water quality...
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  #108  
Old 07/25/2007, 06:00 AM
GDESQUIRE GDESQUIRE is offline
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GET A DOZEN HERMIT CRABS INSTEAD OF MORE SNAILS. ONCE ACCLIMATED TO YOUR SALINITY, THE HERMIT CRABS ARE VERY HARDY AND WON'T BE BOTHERED BY THE LOW NITRITE READING. TRUST ME - 30% IS NOT A MASSIVE WATER CHANGE. 50-60% IS.
  #109  
Old 07/25/2007, 06:28 AM
GDESQUIRE GDESQUIRE is offline
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LIVE ROCK CURING: I think the reason some of you are having problems w/ nitrites and high nitrates is that the love rock was not filly cured before introduction into the tank. Even if advertised/sold as "cured" live rock, there is inevitable die off that occurs during shipping. Theoretically, the live rock should first be cured by putting it in a holding tank ( a clean garbage can) and allowed to sit for 5 -7 days with no or little lightEither a protein skimmer is used or daily water changes are made until ammonia, than nitrite than nitrates spike. Afterwards, the rock is introduced to the tank, now fully cured.
What is happening to a lot of you is that the curing is taking place in the tank. It is not "wrong" to cure the rock in the tank but diatoms, hair algae etc. are the end result.

I would keep the lights off (as hard as that may be) except for short viewing purposes, until the hair algae and other nussance algae is gone. W/out the lights it can't continue to grow and will eventually receed.

Laurant: Add lots of hermit crabs. They will eat the hair algae and other detritus on the rocks. Do the 30% water change first. You'll thank me later. I've done this 8-10 times w/ various tanks and it has always worked for me.
  #110  
Old 07/25/2007, 02:22 PM
michaelaz michaelaz is offline
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IMHO from what I have read , I would first take a powerhead in hand and hold it and gently move it over the rock in the tank, yes it will create a storm but it move it around, next, clean skimmer every hour for a few hours to help pick up the floating material, finally , add crabs and cover , lights out for 2-3 days, this will kill the algee and let the cleaning crew work awaya and make a dent in the algee. maybe another water change sat after you take the cover off.
  #111  
Old 07/25/2007, 02:35 PM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Hi Laurent. About a week ago I had the same problem. I got home & the wife said something was wrong with the RSM - the water was white. When I ran in and looked at the tank it looked like it was filled with white paint! I couldn't see a thing for all the bubbles. Thankfully all of the life in the tank was unaffected. Since then I've become a lot more diligent with topping off, rather than thinking it can wait till tomorrow. michaelaz's advice on lights off for a few days would be good to try. That algae needs light to grow and depriving it will help.
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  #112  
Old 07/25/2007, 04:51 PM
ALLBOUTREEF ALLBOUTREEF is offline
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i wonder why people get that green algae. i never got it
  #113  
Old 07/26/2007, 08:18 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 28 - Wednesday July 25th

Posting this on Thursday, actually.

- I followed GDEsquire recommendation. Thorough cleaning of the rocks, followed by 10+ gallons water change, 30%.

- I got plenty of bubbles from the skimmer for about two hours after the water change.
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  #114  
Old 07/26/2007, 08:57 PM
GDESQUIRE GDESQUIRE is offline
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LaurantSeattle: The skimmer is picking up the protein from the rock cleaning which evidences there was a lot of dead or decaying material on the rocks. You can do this again in a day or two with or w/out the water change. Please add the hermit crabs. You'll be amazed.
  #115  
Old 07/26/2007, 09:28 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 29 - Thursday July 26th

- I turnt the lights off during the day to limit the growth of the algea. Lights will be on from about 7pm to 10pm for a while.

- I spent some time removing by hand as much as I could of the green stuff... Slimy and stinky.

- I cleant again the rocks, siphoning out snail poop and other debris. Topped-off the tank: That's about one gallon water change or 3%...

- One of my Astrea died. I had to remove it.

Here is a picture as of today - after "cleaning". That's still a lot of green. One of the Astrea is working hard on the center rock which looks promising with pink coralline. Well I hope it is coralline... Could someone confirm?



Here is now the fancy trails of one of the snails, grazing on the green haze algea that grows on the glass.



- I tested nitrites with a 0.05ppm reading and nitrates for 50ppm. Better but still far from good.

- I plan another 30% water change this weekend.

GDESQUIRE: I am concerned about introducing more animals in this water that still has nitrites. I have the feeling that I introduced my cleanup crew a bit too early...
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  #116  
Old 07/27/2007, 07:15 AM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Hi Laurent - it does indeed look like pink/purple coralline on that center rock. The more you get of the coralline the less places that algae has a chance to grow, but it takes time to get a lot of coralline.

One thing I've always wanted to do, but haven't yet, is to somehow attach the bristle end of a toothbrush to my siphon. I think that would really help to be able to scrub algae off the rock and at the same time have it siphoned out. I'm surprised someone doesn't sell anything like that. One of these days I'll get to it, but I think it would really help in cases like yours and Rue's. I still get a small patch of algae once in a while and it can be difficult to pull it off (too slippery) but I think a stiff brush would help.
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  #117  
Old 07/27/2007, 11:52 AM
crazylegs crazylegs is offline
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What's up Laurent?! I just wanted to tell you a couple things that I wish someone had told me when I first started in saltwater.

First-every single new tank that is not stocked with 100% cured live rock will go thru this kind of algea cycle. Some worse than others, because it depends on the amount of die-off and "life" in your LR. But you already know this part.

Next-I have never owned or know of any animals that will completely consume every little bit of hair algea in reef aquaria. Some people prefer this creature, some that creature. I prefer a nice hungry lawnmower blenny, even if you just have to put it in for a couple days then take it back. Hair algea is going to grow in your tank for a long time to come, BUT it will become much easier to control when your nutrient levels fall. I am a firm believer in refugiums to lower nitrates, but it can be done with water changes only, as long as you stay on top of them. When your nitrates begin to fall, that will weaken the hair algea so that it can be easily removed by hand. I like to have a bowl of water next to my tank while algea picking so that I can just dip my hand in the bowl and off comes the hair algea. Eventually it will only grow in certain places, like where there is slow current that allows debris to settle, or pod tunnel openings where they deposit poo and stuff. Like i said though, whene your nutrient levels fall,it will grow slower and become MUCH more manageable.

Finally- Cyano is not cool! Its best to remove it with a continuous flow, like a siphon. If you mess with this stuff the wrong way, it will cover everything that it can. If you use a baster, there is a chance that some will leak back into the tank. Whatever you do, don't just blow cyano off your rocks! It'll go crazy. Look at a cyano bloom as constructive criticism, it can only grow in areas that have too little flow. So if you adjust your flow to meet that happy medium between cyano growth and break-neck current, all is well.

Hopefully you already knew this stuff and I just waisted my time. If not, then I hope it helped. Alot of this hobby is fluid (pun intended) in that it changes from person to person and situation to situation. These topics, however, are the headache that all marine hobbiests share and I hope it doesn't demote your interest in saltwater. Anyway, good luck!
  #118  
Old 07/27/2007, 04:22 PM
GDESQUIRE GDESQUIRE is offline
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Hi Laurent: With that much hair algae you might want to consider taking the rocks out and claning them with a hard bristle brush in a bucket of saltwater. The algae contains alot of nutrient that will leach back into the water when the agae dies off. I've used this technique several times with success. In fact, live rock that is not fully cured can be cleaned in this manner. Don't work about hurting the rocks - they will maintain the healthy bacteria. After cleaning, return the rocks w/ lights off for a few days.
  #119  
Old 07/27/2007, 06:00 PM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Good idea GDESQUIRE. I wanted to suggest earlier, but forgot to. It may be a lot of work and a PITA, but that sure would help. Algae may help consume the nitrates, but as some of it dies it just creates more nitrates in the process of decaying, so the high nitrates just keep perpetuating themselves. Even just pulling out and scrubbing several rocks on the top layers would help.
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  #120  
Old 07/27/2007, 08:41 PM
GDESQUIRE GDESQUIRE is offline
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REEFMACK: YOU WORDED IT BETTER THAN I DID
  #121  
Old 07/27/2007, 10:03 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 30 - Friday July 27th

Thanks everyone for continuous advice.

Here is now my plan for tomorrow:

- Clean the glass

- Remove algae that has grown on the back side. Let it be taken by the mechanical filtration system.

- Clean the filters as soon as the water clears.

- Remove algae by hand as much as I can from the bigger rocks.

- Remove the smaller top and medium layer rocks from the tank and clean them - with a tooth brush? Put them back in.

- Clean again mechanical filters after the sandstorm is gone.

- Make yet another big water change, siphooning out as much crap as I can during the process.

Phewww... I wanted a lot maintenance tank...

Status as of tonight:

- Pods! Finally some pods!!!

- Nitrites still non-zero but very close to the green I got when testing RO/DI water a while ago.

- Limited algae growth, compared to previous days, certainly due to the fact that lights were off all day.

- All snails quite active.
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  #122  
Old 07/28/2007, 07:31 AM
GDESQUIRE GDESQUIRE is offline
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Laurant: You need a large hard bristle brush. Something lick a barbeque cleaner. Otherwise, great plan. Takes a few photos when done.
  #123  
Old 07/28/2007, 07:36 AM
Reefmack Reefmack is offline
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Hi Laurent. Yes - a toothbrush or scrub brush - bigger would be better - a brush, not a scrubby pad. One like mentioned above or the type used to hand scrub floors. I know it's a lot of work and a big pain, but I think it will help a lot. Eventually (hthe sooner the better) you'll get to that low(er) maintenance tank! Just be careful you don't drop any rock! Put some newspapers or old rugs on the floor too.
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  #124  
Old 07/30/2007, 11:00 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 31 - Saturday July 28th

Posted on Monday actually

Accomplished most of the "tasks" listed above, except one rock that I had no time left to "cure". As predicted by ReefMack, curing and cleaning the rocks was a PITA... a very stinky PITA indeed.

I also made a much smaller water change that I planned because I ran out of salt... No time to get new, etc... 7 gallons. That's about 20%.

Here is how the tank is looking after cleaning and water change



Then I leave the tank under moonlights until Sunday evening....
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  #125  
Old 07/30/2007, 11:04 PM
LaurentSeattle LaurentSeattle is offline
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Day 32 - Sunday July 29th - Late at night

Posted on Monday actually

Back from Portland late at night... Algae seems to be receding. Plenty of pods !

Water flow is somewhat blocked. Pumps are both pumping but circulation is very slow. Too late and too tired to do anything.
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Last edited by LaurentSeattle; 07/30/2007 at 11:26 PM.
 

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