Carbon Confusion

[krzyphsygy]

I have been using Black Magic Carbon for a few years and have been rinsing it. When I do this it seems like most of the carbon runs off.

What is a good carbon to use (brand)?
How is the best way to use it? I have a sump.
Should it be rinsed??

I do not feel I am getting the best use out of carbon.

[BeanAnimal]

2 little fishies appears to have very little Phosphate in it...

It should always be rinsed. The carbon rubs together and creates dust. You want to rinse all of that dust away. You can put it in a media bag (LFS or order one for a few bucks). An alternative is to put it in a reactor fed by a small pump. You don't want it to fluidize though (it will grind it self into dust).

[bhdmc]

I use ESV carbon. It contains low ash dust. I just rise it with RO/DI water and run it in a Phosban reactor.

[pjf]

Compared to other granular activated carbons (GAC), ROX 0.8 produces very little dust despite the fine size of its granules. Fill the reactor with ROX and place the reactor in the sink. Pump filtered or RO/DI water through it. You will find that the effluent clears after less than a gallon of water. You can purchase ROX 0.8 from Two Part Solution. The 3 pound quantity is currently on sale: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Bulk-C...duct_info.html

I use ROX GAC and PHOSaR-HC GFO in the same reactor. A gallon of dechlorinated water is all that I need to rinse both media free of dust.

[BeanAnimal]

You may want to check the carbon for Phosphate. Steve Pro did a test a while back and found that many brands had a LOT of it!

[bhdmc]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
You may want to check the carbon for Phosphate. Steve Pro did a test a while back and found that many brands had a LOT of it!

Is there a list/chart of brands of carbon he tested?

[BeanAnimal]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume...omparisons.htm

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic60238-14-1.aspx

Enjoy!

[bhdmc]

BeanAnimal,

Thanks for the articles. It was very helpful.

[seagirl]

wow, thanks for the links bean. i have been using the black diamond and i see it had the highest ratign of those tested. I had planned on purchasing the Premium ROX 0.8 Carbon from Two part solution.com(same as pjf linked) but i wonder what the phosphate content of it is? anybody tested it yet?

[pjf]

If you use GAC and GFO together, phosphate should not be a problem. In my reactor, the water flows through a layer of GAC before passing through the GFO layer.

The issue of phosphate leaching from GAC has been debated in the Reef Chemistry forum. Randy Holmes-Farley stated that feeding is more of an issue as a single feeding can bring phosphates up by 0.4ppm (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php). My recommendation is to buy a phosphate test kit, such as those from Hach or Deltec-Merck, or simply use GAC and GFO together.

[BeanAnimal]

Not all people wish to use (or pay for) GFO. There is also debate (MUCH DEBATE) surrounding the use of GFO.

Do you import more P with food... sure, but why use a carbon that makes the problem worse.

[pjf]

The GAC was not rinsed prior to testing. Nevertheless, the phosphate found would be much diluted in an aquarium. "The ratio of carbon to water used in these tests was considerably more than one would use in a typical aquarium application. Therefore, phosphate leaching shouldn't be a concern when using the brands tested here." (http://web.archive.org/web/200303151...ct/default.asp).

I'm not sure what GFO issues you are referring to but the Reef Chemistry forum should help with that subject.

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by pjf
The GAC was not rinsed prior to testing. Nevertheless, the phosphate found would be much diluted in an aquarium.

It is kind of funny how you only agree with the work of others when it supports whatever arguement you are trying to make.

Lets make the simple point again, shall we. Some brands of carbon have more phosphate than others. They are afterall made from organics. Why add more phosphate to the system if you can help it? Some brands have been shown to have significantly more than others, rinsed or not rinsed. Remember different brands of activated carbon are made from different organic materials using slightly different processes. There is a VERY detailed thread around here someplace.

I'm not sure what GFO issues you are referring to but the Reef Chemistry forum should help with that subject.

Ohh my... what would a thread be without the patented PJF condescending remarks. You may want to mosey on over there yourself.

The bottom line is exactly as I stated in the previous post.

1) Some brands of carbon have significantly more Phosphate than others.
2) Some people may not wish to add that phosphate to their systems.
3) Some people may not wish to purchase GFO to offset the effects when another brand of GAC could be easily selected.

[pjf]

The thread starter wanted carbon media that produces less dust and such media was suggested to him. If there are tests showing high levels of phosphate from the suggested media, do let us know.

[BeanAnimal]

The thread starter wanted carbon media that produces less dust and such media was suggested to him.

The thread starter asked a question to which relevant replies where made. Shall we outline the FIRST response in the thread?

1) All brands of activated carbon should be rinsed.
2) Many brands have high levels of phosphate.
3) There are many ways to run carbon.
4) Filter socks and small reactors are the most popular.
5) In a reactor you DO NOT want the carbon to tumble, as it will abrade itself and be released into the tank.

You added a recommendation for a brand of carbon. You also outlined your use of GFO. Both answers were fine. You then tried to discount my advice regarding phosphate and have (as usual) walked out on a limb trying to defend your comments.

Like I said in the other thread... I could understand your persistence if you were right even a small fraction of the time. Your not, and instead your just trolling. I say red, you say black. Thread after thread PJF... it gets more than a little old.

If there are tests showing high levels of phosphate from the suggested media, do let us know.

Test the carbon yourself... I could care less. The actual specifications are outside the scope of my comments. I have already chosen a brand of carbon that meets my needs. I have offered the OP information to help him choose a brand as well.

Shall we ask the moderators to limit comments to ONLY direct responses to what the OP asked?

[rpeeples]

Originally posted by seagirl
wow, thanks for the links bean. i have been using the black diamond and i see it had the highest ratign of those tested. I had planned on purchasing the Premium ROX 0.8 Carbon from Two part solution.com(same as pjf linked) but i wonder what the phosphate content of it is? anybody tested it yet?

Excellent debate folks....Huckabee and Romney would be proud.

Back to an earlier question from SeaGrl.....has anyone tested this ROX 0.8 Carbon?

If not, I will be receiving some today and I will conduct my own tests and publish on this thread.

Thanks,
Ron

PS. Randy Holmes article (posted in the above links) is the most complete and comprehensive material on carbon and phosphate I have seen to date......folks this guy actually developed medication which limits phosphate uptake in humans. So if you want the ins and outs of phosphate and carbon studies for the reef aquaria.....these articles will provide this.

[Donw]

Pretty much all carbon will release some phosphate including rox. Rinsing in rodi water helps with the P. All around rox is good stuff, and is very fast acting but does not last very long but has a larger capacity. There are many types of carbon all designed for different purposes. The cleanest carbon around is sold by the filter guys and does not need to be rinsed prior to use most of the time. The one carbon I would avoid is Kent but most of the others are fine for this hobby.

Don

[trmiv]

I've also heard good things about the Elos carbon, but have you seen the price on that stuff? $22.95 for 500ml of it at marinedepot! That stuff better change my frigging water for me at that price!

I'm currently using Seachem Matrix, which is awesome but a little pricey. I just bought a big tub of the Lignite carbon from twopartsolution, I'm curious about the phosphate content of that stuff.

[rpeeples]

TRMIV....I will be testing the ROX Carbon however my results will be measured using Salfiert PO4 Test Kit which according to most articles I have read (Homles) will only register a certain type of phosphate (Inorganic vs Organic)...none the less I will conduct the test trying to mimic the ratio we would use in our tanks by I.E. Grams of Carbon to Gallons of Water using both RODI and Freshly Mixed Saltwater with a SG of 1.026. Unless of course someone has already conducted these types of test on the Rox Carbon???

[BeanAnimal]

I would mimic the test performed by Randy or Steven so that the results can be easily juxtaposed with the other brands.

[trmiv]

I actually bought the lignite, not the ROX carbon from twopartsolution. I need to pickup a phosphate test kit and see what I get.

[dailydriven911]

I'm using elos carbon in my reactor and noticed quite a difference compared to kent carbon. I love it!

[Donw]

Originally posted by dailydriven911
I'm using elos carbon in my reactor and noticed quite a difference compared to kent carbon. I love it!

The reason your seeing alot of difference is that kent carbon is not aqueous and is made to filter air.

Don

[seagirl]

Originally posted by rpeeples
Excellent debate folks....Huckabee and Romney would be proud.
Back to an earlier question from SeaGrl.....has anyone tested this ROX 0.8 Carbon?

If not, I will be receiving some today and I will conduct my own tests and publish on this thread.


Thanks,
Ron

PS. Randy Holmes article (posted in the above links) is the most complete and comprehensive material on carbon and phosphate I have seen to date......folks this guy actually developed medication which limits phosphate uptake in humans. So if you want the ins and outs of phosphate and carbon studies for the reef aquaria.....these articles will provide this.

Thanks Ron. I'm very curious to see the results

[seagirl]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Not all people wish to use (or pay for) GFO. There is also debate (MUCH DEBATE) surrounding the use of GFO.

Do you import more P with food... sure, but why use a carbon that makes the problem worse.

bean- is there any reading material you can link for me about the debate on GFO? I have been using it thinking there wasn't any issues, would like to learn more. thanks.