Feedback on "dry" shipping corals?

fishetcinc · #1 01/22/2006, 12:16 AM

In this article,

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/eb/index.php

Eric Borneman makes a good argument that corals should be shipped either "dry" or "damp" instead of in bags of water. In short, his argument is as follows:

1. Bags of water with corals often become fouled during transit due to the production of copious amounts of mucus by the corals themsevles. The mucus is such a nutrient rich substrate that it promotes the growth of microbes creating a toxic broth detremental to the corals.

2. However, when shipping corals "damp" or "dry", the mucus production instead acts beneficially by protecting the corals as they would during a low tide period promoting healthier arrival.

3. If anything, the cost savings in freight charges of shipping coral without water is significant enough to promote further study.

Personally, I have to agree with Borneman's observations. Often, when I received a shipment at the store, those corals in bags which had deflated and had no water, turnned out to be the healthiest corals in the shipment opening within minutes of arrival. Also, live rock has always been shipped dry and it consistently arrives with tons of life attached.

So ... what is everyone's opinion about Eric's idea? Anyone else have experiences with "dry" shipping corals? Would you feel "comfortable" buying a coral online that arrives to you "dry/damp"?

K.

Milhouse · #2 01/22/2006, 01:39 AM

I've gotten snails and hermits shipped to me in damp paper towels, but never corals. When you think about it though, look at how much life most of us have on our liverock, and that is barely shipped damp. Not sure I would want them to "experiment" on my order though. But the idea of saving on shipping could mean a ton to mail order businesses. The biggest drawback for me(and probably most), is the shipping. If I could order a box of corals and pay no more than maybe $20 shipping I would be pretty excited.

Brother Jerm · #3 01/22/2006, 04:14 AM

I ship in breathable bags I get from Kens fish.....Excellant bags, just a tiny bit of water very little weight. [violation] .and these breathable bags are awsome! great for sps!

Jeremy

Brother Jerm · #4 01/22/2006, 04:15 AM

[violation]

FishinInTheDark · #5 01/22/2006, 09:50 AM

I have gotten zoas dry shipped to me from North Dakota. They were open within minutes, once acclimated. Of course, you could probably stick a stamp right on a zoanthid and it'd come through fine. LPS and SPS do well this way too?

larryl · #6 01/22/2006, 12:10 PM

I dry-shipped almost all my stuff here from Michigan and it did fine. The Anthelia and Xenia got shipped in water because I had heard they would end up as gooey blobs if they were shipped dry, but everything else (leathers, cladiella, zoos, acro frags) did fine. Mushrooms on the rocks did fine too, they just got shipped in wet newspaper. Everything was in the boxes for about 16 hours since I shipped on the same plane I flew in on and was able to pick up right away upon arrival, but I guess that would be a similar time frame to something shipped priority overnight. I hadn't seen Eric's article at the time, I got most of my info from the Delbeck and Sprung books and from Dick Perrin at Tropicorium. Temperature wasn't too much of an issue at the time I shipped mine, but in general I think my only concern would be whether the temperature could be held stable during very hot or cool weather, since you don't have the thermal mass of the water in the bags to help keep things constant.

Larry

rkl303 · #7 01/22/2006, 02:13 PM

I doubt the water would keep anything constant but it would act as a buffer to slowly adjust the coral to temperature changes.

dgasmd · #8 01/22/2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishetcinc
So ... what is everyone's opinion about Eric's idea? Anyone else have experiences with "dry" shipping corals? Would you feel "comfortable" buying a coral online that arrives to you "dry/damp"?

First of, this is far from being Eric's idea. As he very lightly pointed out int he article, this has been used and done for decades now. Nothing new really other than it has never caught on in the trade.

About 3-4 years ago, bought some frags from a member in RC. 18 SPS frags came in very small bags that has the frag completely wrapped in wet/damped paper towel. Every single one not only survivied, but did extremely well. I have not used the method myself to ship, but I have never shipped regardless. I, however, would feel very confortable receiving and shipping corals like that.

stugray · #9 01/22/2006, 02:55 PM

Firstly, I want to know why the above posts were "in violation of the terms" blah blah.

Could someone tell me what was edited out without using any wording that would get edited?

Stu

stugray · #10 01/22/2006, 02:58 PM

Secondly, Maybe if some of the coral suppliers would ship a free frag using the dry method, they could determine how successful that method is.

As was said above, I wouldnt want to risk my order by trying that, but I would gladly give feedback on the method for a free frag. In the end, this could cost the buyers & suppliers a lot less if we could determine the success rate.

Stu

fishetcinc · #11 01/22/2006, 08:14 PM

Great feedback!

My main concern with this method is that the loss of water also means the loss of shock dampening. In a bag of water, a coral can be floated upside down with a styrofoam "floaty" rubberbanded to the base. This keeps the coral from getting knocked around inside the box during shipping. With dry shipping, you can't do that. With larger colonies or frags, particularly acros, wrapping them in damp newspaper offers little to no protection. I could forsee branches being broken off or even the whole colony being crushed under the weight of the base rock or worse ... being crushed under the weight of other boxes stacked on top during transport. I, too, have received zoas dry and the major problem has been that sometimes the zoas are crushed under the weight of the attached rock.

Stuffing a bag full of newspaper or other material to the point that the coral can't move or be crushed may or may not be a good option. I would be concerned that the heavily packed material pressed up against the coral, specially SPS, would irritate (via friction) the coral's tissue and initiate a necrosis or bleaching event.

Hmm ... any ideas here?

Stu does have a good idea of testing out dry shipping methods by shipping free frags. But one still needs a good method to start with to test. I would hate to blindly ship out dry corals to see what works and what doesnt.

K.

jonthefb · #12 01/23/2006, 12:19 PM

Calfo reccommends shipping in almost no water with shredded plasticbags in the bag with the sps.....i too have never received frags via this method, but agree that it is something that needs further discussion, as it could mean a huge reduction in the prices of the animals themselves!

good luck
jon

larryl · #13 01/23/2006, 01:24 PM

If you think about the "accidental" damp shipments like Dick Perrin and others have described, the corals were probably originally bagged with water and packed in a styrofoam-lined box, maybe with some styrofoam peanuts or wadded newspaper around the bags depending on how tightly they filled the box. So once the water leaked out of the bags, there was probably still some (enough?) cushioning just from the bags themselves and the other packing materials. I'm guessing you'd be ok if you loosely filled around the bags with some packing peanuts, or maybe used some small disposable individual containers that the shipping bag snugly fits in (without crushing or impairing surface area), something like these:

http://www.ziploc.com/new_containers.html

and then fill around them with packing material.

Larry

Mr.Lizard · #14 01/23/2006, 02:06 PM

I would think you could wrap the coral in the damp paper towels as noted, but then place them in a sealed/rubber banded plastic bag with a bit of air to aid in cushioning....then some styro peanuts or bubble wrap to isolate the container within the styro-insulated shipping container. (cooling or heat pads as determined to be necessary, but you'd have to isolate them from direct contact with the specimens) It probably would work best individually rather than more than one at a time in any one bag, I'd think.
I like the ziploc container idea- several corals could be packed individually with towel and a bit of air like I was saying, and then packed in the rigid plastic container for extra protection with any heat/cool packs deemed necessary outside that- I believe keeping the heat/cool from direct contact with the container would be adviseable to avoid hot/cool spots.