Any interest in organizing?

[GreshamH]

Matt, where ever you go, you have our support at RMI

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with the board. It can be a head ache, I know I too have been labelled as a commercial and banned for a day. All because I wrote a ertemelly glowing report of SDC. I was labelled as working for them, even though it's a 6 hour journey 1 way for me Luckily RC has some really good mods in the midst, adnt hey helped me out. Hopefully some will come to your aid

[GreshamH]

BTW, we still offer our support to this plan if it comes to light

[mwp]

That's right, the mods on Reef Central Got me. I'm about to put every last darn ORA and TMC and LA.com out of business unfairly by not being a forum sponsor and by breaking the rules and posting "commercial" listings. Everyone last one of us fish breeders afterall, is commercial. Joe L, David M, Kathy55g, Ediaz, I'm putting you all out of business with my sale of 79 17 day old onyx percs!

Well, without further delay, especially for the all the good folks here at Reef Central, here's MY UBER COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE!

Office, Part I - Broodstock System #1 to the left (the system with the ICH outbreak). Broodstock & SPS System #2 to the right (and please note the breeder net containing 80 healthy 18 day old nitrate factories in the SPS system, and I wonder why I can't propagate SPS's!)


Office, Part II - Quarantine Facilities, Larval and Grow Out Facilties, Phytoplankton and Zooplankton culture facilties. Note the Allardi and Black Ocellaris pairs - these are currently in quarntine


Broodstock System #3 - please note the blue thing in the lower right...we like to take a nap once in a while when working on the job, hence we felt a bed was required. I apologize for the salt streaks on the front of this system...you know how it goes when you're busy running a commercial fish breeding operation


Growout System #2 - Again, note the extra nice touches in the vicinity of this growout system. A bed, reading lamp, nightstand and alarm clock. These special touches are what make this operation the over the top success that it is!


I have 2 full time employees. The first one is Tucker. He's responsible for culling my broodstock and taking water samples in the SPS system.


Our other employee is Alice. She handles daily field trips, janitorial duties, as well as marketing and company morale. Notice the vintage hardwood floors that blanket our facility...these are ESSENTIAL to the success and ease of maintenance in any legitimate Commercial Fish Breeding Operation!


That's the tour!

FWIW,

MWP

[MimicTang]

u cant receive PMs either MWP did u know that?

[mwp]

Yup, I know, part of being on "probation". No access to email any of you thorugh the "mail" link, no access to my PMs or to sending PM's, no access apparently to posting anything in any of the selling/trading forums etc. Funny, but there's no mention of "probation" in the RC literature, not how you get on it, how you get off it etc....

Matt

[MimicTang]

You dont wanna get the "moved on"

[BrianD]

I would suggest this thread go back to the original topic, or it will be closed.

[Kmiec123]

Thanks for posting all that, usually top secret, info Matt. Most fisheries I dealt with don't give out that type of info. I would be interested in whatever set up in organizing is available and only wish I had the time or knowledge to help out. Let me know if any help in the organizing project is needed and I'll do my best to do my part. Let me know...Carl

[MimicTang]

Here's a question to put it more on topic would breeders be interested in doing a 60/40 split say if someone ran out of fish or was getting started?

You'd hopefully make out even and wouldnt have as much expense on food. I'm talking bout maybe 200-500 fish too. You'd allow someone else to get their foot in the door as far as making one more store stop buying WC too.

[David M]

Oh for the love of... this is rediculous !!!! Commercial breeder ? Matt ?? The guy has 3 -24 gallon nanno's !!!!!!

The selling forum says: "This forum is for sales of propagated corals and other tank bred or raised livestock, live rock, live sand, macroalgae, etc." If a hobbyist can't post captive bred and raised fish there what is the point??

What the heck is tank bred live rock anyway ?

Every time I look there I see all kinds of fish for sale that are clearly not "tank bred or raised" ( tangs, angels, etc), why no enforcement on those ?

I really would like the mod in question or any other to explain this so we can all understand these "unwritten" rules if there actually are such things. I am definately a "commercial" breeder, I realize that I cannot post my fish for sale in the forum. I respect that and don't expect to be able to, but Matt? Gimme a break

If a fish breeder is automatically considered to be commercial why wouldn't the same apply to a stick fragger?

It's just very confusing to me and I honestly wish someone with some authority would clear it up.

[BrianD]

Originally posted by BrianD
I would suggest this thread go back to the original topic, or it will be closed.

With that said, I will offer this one comment.

If you have fish that spawn in your personal tank and you wish to sell the offspring, that is perfectly acceptable. However, if you maintain tanks for the sole purpose of breeding fish, you will be viewed in the same manner as someone who maintains fragging tanks for corals.

There is nothing "ridiculous" about that. It has always been the rule on Reef Central. If you disagree, please take your comments to the Feedback Forum. This is not the appropriate place to discuss board policy.

[FMarini]

Thanks

[Luis A M]

Originally posted by BrianD
With that said, I will offer this one comment.

However, if you maintain tanks for the sole purpose of breeding fish, you will be viewed in the same manner as someone who maintains fragging tanks for corals.

I maintain tanks for the sole purpose of breeding fish and shrimp,
as most (all?)the active folks in this "Fish Breeding Forum".
In what manner will I then be viewed

[Kmiec123]

On topic...I am interested in trying, I stress the word trying , to breed fish that have yet to be bread for the sole purpose of helping save the oceans from harvesting and the extinction of fish due to the sole reason of being selfish and wanting a pretty fish in my hobby tank at home. Just a thought

[scott324]

I expect to publish the link Sunday.

Sorry for the delay folks, but I do have a real job and a new one at that. We just moved from Florida to Maryland so I am still getting acclimated at the new position.

I hope it gets resolved quickly for you Matt. You definately contribute greatly to this forum.

Are you on Double Secret Probation????

[BrianD]

Originally posted by Luis A M
I maintain tanks for the sole purpose of breeding fish and shrimp,
as most (all?)the active folks in this "Fish Breeding Forum".
In what manner will I then be viewed

Reef Central's goal is to maintain as commercial-free an environment as is possible, yet still provide the ability for aquarists to offer their excess livestock to fellow reefers. We have long held the policy that if a reefer acquires or raises livestock solely for resale, they are deemed to be commercial. Obviously, this is a difficult line to walk and be fair to all concerned. Are mistakes made on both sides? Certainly, but we do our best to open communication with the parties involved and work through the situation.

It would be difficult for us to tell a person they can't have frag tanks for producing corals for resale while at the same time allowing the breeding of fish for resale. This is obviously a tough issue and one that the administration of the board will look into. We thank everyone for their patience while we iron this out.

Again, I request that if you wish to discuss this, let's not hijack this thread.

[FMarini]

Okay FBF -
Lets try to stay on track here.

Brian has provided the offical word here and I ask each of you to sit tight while these discussion occur.

I ask each of you to not specficially address Brian or other mods in this regards while we sort this out.

Lastly, I will be repsonsible for this thread, and will address your concerns directly.
frank

[DivaMan]

Wheeeew... wow. HEy matt any updates on the quarantine, all of teh fish?

[R.yumaDaddy?]

Originally posted by FMarini
Okay FBF -
I will be repsonsible for this thread, and will address your concerns directly.
frank

Does RC stand for reef communism or reef capital? Mods constantly shut down any negative-RC chatter amungst the mere ant members. Are members seriously getting banned for speaking out? Why dose the establishment value sponsors over members? If im a premium member, making me a "sponsor", can I sell my fish here? Dont ban me for asking honest questions.

[BrianD]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by R.yumaDaddy?
Does RC stand for reef communism or reef capital?


Reef Central. You might look at the address you type in to get here and use that as a clue.

Mods constantly shut down any negative-RC chatter amungst the mere ant members.

No, actually we tolerate quite a bit. For example, some people continue to take threads off topic when they have been asked multiple times to show common courtesy and not hijack other member's threads when there is a Feedback forum for that purpose. Sadly, some people are so concerned with their own agendas that simple good manners are lost on them.

Are members seriously getting banned for speaking out?

Not yet, but keep trying.

Why dose the establishment

I never dosed the establishment.

If im a premium member, making me a "sponsor", can I sell my fish here?

Here is a hint. Check to see how many threads are started by sponsors selling goods outside of their sponsored forums. Check back when you find one.

Dont ban me for asking honest questions.

No problem. We only ban people for asking dishonest questions.

[Luis A M]

Originally posted by BrianD
However, if you maintain tanks for the sole purpose of breeding fish, you will be viewed in the same manner as someone who maintains fragging tanks for corals.

Frank,glad you came to "moderate" here!
With all respect I find Brian´s "official"statement,hard to understand.We are full time breeders,not casual breeders such as "My Nemos just spawned in my reef tank,will they raise the fry in there?"or "Help!,my ponny got preggers,what now?".We keep systems dedicated to breeding/raising marines.And we are working hard to keep the standards of this Forum which I think is the best of all breeders forums worldwide.
Therefore,IMHO,banning dedicated breeding or breeders in a Breeders Forum is ill inspired and self defeating.

There´s a world of difference between coral fragging and fish/shrimp breeding.Brian didn´t reply how coral fraggers are viewed in RC.I think they have a Forum of their own.

What are the written or unwritten rules that apply here?.

I´m sure this is all a huge misunderstanding and the problem here is using the Forum for commercially offering offspring (or frags).If that was the case I can not agree more.There are places for selling and PMs to talk about that.
Truth is that even if we consider ourselves non commercial,every successful raising of some hundred juveniles need to be sold to lfs.We can not keep them.

So please tell us what the real problem is

[Kathy55g]

Originally posted by Luis A M
I maintain tanks for the sole purpose of breeding fish and shrimp,
as most (all?)the active folks in this "Fish Breeding Forum".
In what manner will I then be viewed

Luis, you may indeed post on this or any forum as long as you do not try to sell your fish and shrimp here or anywhere on Reef Central. We who breed swimmers for profit cannot sell here. Granted. Profit makers should and do pay, when they advertise their goods on Reef Central.

As I understand it, the moderator (mod) saw MWP's posting of his immature fish for sale on the "Propagated Corals & Tank Raised Livestock Selling" forum, and thought he was commercial.

The mod clearly did not know MWP's situation, that he has 3 reef nanno tanks and 2 ten gallon multipurpose tanks and not even a sump, for heaven's sake.

The mod did not know that MWP lost a fish, tore up one of his nannos looking for it, and stressed out the many other fish he keeps in there. They got ick, and MWP suddenly needed the tank the juveniles occupied to medicate his adult fish. MWP had to find a new home for the juveniles fast. MWP is also a little strapped for funds. The mod did not know the situation before he probationed our friend. Perhaps he could not have known.

MWP has breeding logs on the fish breeding forum each a mile long and with so many species, it is not unreasable to assume, given a casual perusal of his postings, that he is a commercial breeder with a huge warehouse setup. How could the mod know of our maverick friend who pushes the envelope in so many ways? It is not immediately obvious to a person who does not read every thread in the fish breeding forum.

By the time it may have dawned on the mod of the realities herein, tempers had already flared, things were said that should not have been said, so now there is a dillemma, a closed door discussion, and we on the outside must patiently wait.

In our friend's defense, I would like to point out as further proof, that no commercial breeder in their right mind would sell juvenile fish so young and tiny. The risks are too great. This was an act of desperation (though I understand the juveniles did survive).

AND, I do think that clarification of the rules and an even application of them would be wise.

Here are some threads I saw tonight in the trading forum that appear to break the rules, and yet they remain uncensored:
frag packs!
admits to frag tank
lots of frags!

I'm not trying to report these threads, it is just that I don't understand how they can be viewed as mere hobbyists trading excess corals when they maintain frag tanks, have many frags for sale, ask for retail prices or more, and are prepared to ship.

In any case, I do hope that this matter can be resolved in a timely manner (soon!) and that the informative, thought provoking, and inspiring posts of our friend MWP can once again be forthcoming. We miss him.

Sincerely, and respectfully yours,
Kathy

[Kmiec123]

I agree 100% Kathy, This form has suffered a loss and is missing a valuable asset. I have also heard that the main problem was not so much tempers, but to just state the rules clearly. Not to learn ways around...just to know them. Glad you heard the little ones have a happy home....After all, that was the main point.....Carl

PS On topic-Did we get that link yet...I tried the breeder regestry, Is that dead? Just wondering.

[Kathy55g]

dead

[Slakker]

Wow...I was planning on posting some ideas...but by the time I got to the last page it all was completely irrelevant....

I hope everything gets sorted out soon!