Green Mandarin (Synchiropus splendidus) Breeding Log! - Page 3

David M · #51 04/23/2006, 06:57 PM

Those just have to be kuda

, see how they swim with their tails curled up under them?

jnowell · #52 04/24/2006, 09:56 AM

Good Eye David! Indeed they are kudas. 150 of them on thier first brood

I was thinking, good god, how many will they have next time....well....40. I've changed up their diet a bit (beta glucan and selco enrichment once per day, and mysis/mysids fro 3 different companies. He was preggo again this monring, so we'll know in about two weeks.

Jason

mwp · #53 04/25/2006, 12:07 AM

Alrighty you two...enough about the seahorses...shouldn't that be it's own thread?!?!

Just wanted to come back with a behavioural update on our Mandarin pair. Over the last couple evenings I haven't witnessed any pre-spawn rises or major courtship, but there has been some "sparring" of sorts between our two. It's clear the male wants to mate, while the female just doesn't seem quite ready....

It's also worth mentioning that the male mandarin seems to have FINALLY gotten on the Turbinaria "feeding station" bandwagon...he's starting to regain some weight which no doubt can only help our next spawn! Guess I need to get crackin' on the Kriesel!!!

MP

jnowell · #54 04/25/2006, 09:31 AM

< /seahorse talk >

That's great news about the male eating from the station. I'm watching with great interest...I was actually eye-balling a pair of mandarins at LFS last night. I almost did it, but I really don't think I've got the time with all of my other stuff going on.

Sounds like your next spawn isn't too far off! Good luck with it.

Jason

mwp · #55 04/29/2006, 01:02 AM

Well, it's 4-28-06, technically early AM 4-29-06 - the mandarins have been going through heavy courtship (lots of dancing / rising) and the female is HUGE again. I've quickly constructed our Kriesel...this one is just air-operated. Gonna be waiting up late for the spawn - wish me luck (and them too...I'd hate to see this not happen tonight).

Matt

mwp · #56 04/29/2006, 01:18 AM

1:14 AM Central time - we've had two false spawns...everything comes together right at the surface, lots of FAST fin vibrating, then poof. Unfortunately, no eggs floating on the surface and I think my flashlight may have spooked them when I double checked. (BTW, all pumps were turned out with the lights at 1:00 AM).

MP

mwp · #57 04/29/2006, 01:30 AM

1:28 AM,4-29-06 - WE HAVE A SPAWN!.

mwp · #58 04/29/2006, 01:54 AM

Well, I *think* I have the Kriesle running pretty well...about 50% of the eggs are making gentle round trips in the 1 gallon bowl. Meanwhile, the other 50% are still floating at the surface.

Here's the thing that worries me - we have VERY large copepod populations in the main tank, and in the process of collecting, invariably we've ended up with a fair amount of copepods in the kriesle. Most eggs have at least one copepod hanging on...some have several (as many as 4-5 per egg). Are these copepods going to destroy the eggs before they ever have a chance?!?!

I'm worried about the eggs at the surface too - in our first attempt (simple specimen cup) as evaporation occured, the eggs got left high and dry on the sides of the container....if they're floating and water levels drop...bye bye larvae!

Wow, I never realized there were so many factors working against them. All the same, we only need to raise one (looks like we got around 100-150 eggs to work with this time but that's a TOTAL GUESTIMATE).

MP

mako56 · #59 04/29/2006, 02:32 AM

Very Very cool, I hope you get this figured out. I can just imagine what little mandarins would look like. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mwp · #60 04/29/2006, 08:53 AM

Well, it's now 8:45 AM and I have to say that I owe Jason a big thanks for posting his Kriesel designs - that was the stroke of genious I had been looking for. I don't know if Mai ever tried a Kreisle type setup, but it seems to work really well for these eggs now...none are on the bottom, none are on the top, they're all making gentle slow round-the-world trips! Definitely a big improvement for mandarin incubation! So far none of the eggs look damaged by the copepods...hmm...

Matt

mwp · #61 04/29/2006, 11:01 PM

4-29-06 - I arrived back home around 8:00 PM to find that all the eggs were on the bottom except one that was floating. Apparently there wasn't quite enough current in the kriesel? Well, I'm not really sure, I upped it a little and got them all going again, but around 10:45 I checked and again they were all on the bottom. I'm not really sure what this means...for that matter I'm not really sure how this differs from the "Stirrer" method which either creates downward or upward or circular (horizontal) flow...I just have circular vertical flow. HMM

Anyway, the eggs are for the most part still clear with white spots (developing embryos?). A few empty shells are floating around, but for the most part the eggs look OK. I welcome the thoughts of anyone with more experience!

MP

rsman · #62 04/30/2006, 10:51 PM

so whats the news?? any update?

mwp · #63 05/01/2006, 02:30 AM

Well, I've been sick most of the day...I got up and checked the eggs around 10 AM and they were once again on the bottom. NO good in my book, so I upped the air flow even more...for the most part the rest of the day they have stayed in circulation, although there are still some resting on the bottom.

I feel like I'm slowing losing eggs, especially each episode when I find them on the bottom. By the same token, it seems that IF I'm going to get enough current to keep them in suspension it may be too violent of a ride. There are definitely some that have not made it as I'm either finding shells or clumpy white masses. The eggs that still look good have white dots on them...granted some of the information I've read suggests that by now (48 hours) they should already be hatching? Other sources suggest tomorrow (72 hours). HMMMMMMMM.

All I can say for now is wish me luck and hope for the best!

Matt

jnowell · #64 05/01/2006, 08:03 AM

Matt, sounds like my kreisel might not be the end all solution. If the eggs actually change bouyancy (as it sounds like they do) I can't imagine how to mod it to get it working. Maybe do the full setup with the incoming water too, but run the syphon all the way down near the bottom of the tank so it keep them from sticking to the bottom.

With that happening, I bet you could reduce the airflow and give them a more gentle ride.

Good luck man! Since I started reading this thread, the mandarins at LFS practically bag themselves when I'm in there....must resist......

Jason

mwp · #65 05/01/2006, 01:34 PM

Well Jason, this morning I still had eggs floating around in the Kriesel...and probably today is the day...when I get back home I'm gonna check out an egg or two under my 10X loop and see what I can see....

MP

Kathy55g · #66 05/01/2006, 02:10 PM

Could the attached copepods be weighing them down, decreasing their bouyancy?

mwp · #67 05/01/2006, 02:31 PM

Possibly.....I really gotta get a closer look at them this evening to see what's going on...I should say that it doesn't look like the copepods are still all over the eggs though.

HMMMMMM

mwp · #68 05/01/2006, 11:02 PM

5-1-06 - 11:00 pm - Alrighty guys, I'm really not sure what's up at this point. Most all of the eggs are GONE from the kriesel. I found a few sitting on the tank floor outside the Kriesel today - sucked one up and looked at the white mass through 10X (best magnification I have). At best, maybe there's an embryo in there, but it just looks kinda like a swirled creamy mass with a darker brown/tan spot at one side. I'm clueless what's going on at this point. Thoughts?

MP

mwp · #69 05/01/2006, 11:08 PM

BTW, it's probably worth mentioning that I found a couple empty shells and well...I scanned the entire kreisel and 10 gallon for any larvae...didn't find anything, only lots of copepods and the few eggs that somehow got out of the kriesel today.

Matt

mwp · #70 05/01/2006, 11:14 PM

One more note for the evening (as I get to turn in early for a 6:30 AM wakeup call) - I added 4 "basters" of my phytoplankton mix to the larval tank...just in case. It's a random mix of Tetraselmis, Nannochloris and Nannochloropsis and MAYBE there was some Isocrysis in this batch (the starter culture I got from Dan @ Seahorsesource.com was GREAT and took off like a rocket).

MP

mwp · #71 05/02/2006, 12:43 PM

Well, we're halfway into the fourth day and I don't see any larvae and all the eggs are gone. How tough are these little guys to see???!? (if they're even in there).

Worst case, I have a kreisel now when I need it

MP

mwp · #72 05/03/2006, 11:36 PM

5-3-06 - 11:30 PM (turned out the lights early tonight around 11:00 - 11:05 or so), WE HAVE SPAWN #3!

Details to come.

Matt

mwp · #73 05/04/2006, 12:06 AM

So, here's what's gone down in the last half hour. Roughly 2/3 to 3/4 of the spawn went back into the Kriesel...had to do something and wanted to give it another shot. Currently I'm concocting some sort of "stirrer" but not going with the traditional manual lego/airplane propeller setup - I wasn't prepared for that.

Since I haven't seen one of these in actual action, I can only assume that the stirring causes some sort of clockwise/counterclockwise horizontal circulation within the vessel. Furthermore, it sounds like there is a slight downward flow perhaps in some. SOOOOO...

My slipshod attempt will utilize a spare Minijet 404 pump, a 2 liter bottle, some bridal veil and some rubberbands. Lets see if this works...

I'll post some pics of the kreisel and stirrer sometime soon...would love some feedback. Again, I haven't noticed ANY larvae from the last spawn.

Matt

mwp · #74 05/04/2006, 12:06 AM

BTW, I got REAL lucky catching this spawn...I literally walked into the room and saw it happen. I would have TOTALLY missed this one had it not been for luck.

Matt

mwp · #75 05/04/2006, 12:32 AM

OK, so now it's 12:25 AM and I think I have it all set up. I set up the "stirrer" and added some eggs I had set aside, PLUS I found about another 50-100 floating around the spawning tank, so at best there could be as much as 50% of the spawn in each incubation "method".

I have the minijet 404 on the lowest setting and it appears to be keeping the eggs moving around just a bit slower than the Kriesel. Some of the eggs are on the surface, others are in the water column at the outer edges as far as 75% down in the 2 liter. What I can't tell (and won't be able to see in this design) is if any eggs are getting trapped in the mesh at the bottom of the vessel. The flow is sooo slow though that I suspect it wouldn't be a huge issue anyways.

HMMMMMMMMM.

Wish me tons of luck - as always any advice or thoughts are welcome!

MP