Wild caught really that bad vs. cultured?

jamal-188 · #1 11/28/2006, 01:18 PM

I realize various cultured corals are hardier, hold color better etc compared to wild caught...but is it really that big of a difference?

Do you guys try to avoid wild caught if possible?

rockindacheeks · #2 11/28/2006, 01:21 PM

i think most people avoid WC corals because of potential parasites like RBs or nudis and stuff.

I have some WC corals and they are doing great in my tank.

EmDy · #3 11/28/2006, 01:23 PM

my personal experience, the wild caught need a lot of directional flow to survive and yes, it has 50% while cultured has 75%-100%.

jamal-188 · #4 11/28/2006, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hitekfreak
my personal experience, the wild caught need a lot of directional flow to survive and yes, it has 50% while cultured has 75%-100%.

So you're saying the surviability rate for WC's is only 50%?

Does that mean about 50% once they are home into your tank or 50% from collection to tank?

MiddletonMark · #5 11/28/2006, 01:55 PM

IME, my results [growth/color] have been much much better with aquacultured [in-tank form] vs. wild corals.

Few of the nicely colored corals I've gotten as frags haven't turned out to be strong colors after time in the tank - where only a few wild corals have turned out as nice IMO.

twon8 · #6 11/28/2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rockindacheeks
i think most people avoid WC corals because of potential parasites like RBs or nudis and stuff.

I have some WC corals and they are doing great in my tank.

actually most people i know who got red bugs got them from frags from other reefers.

and cultured are more likely imo to have parasites on them as there are groupings of genera grown together. Also I am fairly certain I got monti eating nudi's in on a cultured piece. also haven't the aefw been correlated with aquacultured pieces?

wild are more unpredictable, a complete gamble

what i don't like are people breaking frags of wild and after glueing calling them aquacultured.

EmDy · #7 11/28/2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jamal-188
So you're saying the surviability rate for WC's is only 50%?

Yes. Im sure there are more experience reefer will chime in.

twon8 · #8 11/28/2006, 02:18 PM

also, wild caught what? acros? monti?

i would be much more comfortable buying a wild monti or birdsnest than i would a wild acro.

Yinger · #9 11/28/2006, 02:19 PM

aquacultured corals generally hold their color better than wild caught. Most wildcaughts, once in the tank will brown out then eventually come back assuming all parameters are in line.

JER-Z · #10 11/28/2006, 02:23 PM

i recently took my first shot at w/c colonies because they were on sale...

One colony looks great, the other is STN'ing...So far that 50/50 theory is holding true for me...

I have never lost an aquacultured frag...

On a side note, one positive about W/C is I now have several Acro Crabs, which is cool.

RichConley · #11 11/28/2006, 02:38 PM

I've bought a couple wild caught colonies, and I generally bust a couple frags off as soon as I get them. THe frags always survive, the colonies, I've had some trouble with. I think some of them are just too dense to get adaquate flow.

jamal-188 · #12 11/28/2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
I've bought a couple wild caught colonies, and I generally bust a couple frags off as soon as I get them. THe frags always survive, the colonies, I've had some trouble with. I think some of them are just too dense to get adaquate flow.

So you bust a couple frags off as soon as you get it home? I've always been nervous to do that becasue they are already stressed. Maybe I'll try that with my next WC colony.

RichConley · #13 11/28/2006, 02:58 PM

It may just be me, but I've never seen a fragging upset an SPS colony. I dont think a branch on 1 side can tell that a branch on the other side is there.

I let them acclimate first, but generally its in the first week that I take a couple of frags. They usually go in a high flow/moderate light spot.

bulfraw215 · #14 11/28/2006, 04:40 PM

I found that w/c do brown and grow slow. I also found if you frag the tips this seems to speed up growth and color change.

gasman059 · #15 11/28/2006, 04:45 PM

IMO AQUA BETTER

Dejavu · #16 11/28/2006, 05:45 PM

I have to agree that cultured corals are better then WC. Wc seem to lose their color and have a lower survivial rate vs. cultured corals

Frankysreef · #17 11/28/2006, 06:00 PM

There are reasons that the wild colonies are on sale... for 80% of the time they will rtn at the LFS, then they get fragged up, or tossed.

This is why hardy colorful frags can be expensive.

But you know what you are getting, know what the color is going to be ( more or less ), and have a good idea that the coral is hardy.

Sometimes wild frags brown out, and wont color up for a year or more, and sometimes won't grow either.

But then captive raised frags will start to grow immediately, and the cool thing is you can get your money back within six mos, by selling a frag of your new colony!

And colors on captive raised are usually correct.

I have a few frags from a wild colony that was green w pink tips... I had to frag it for it rtn'd, and all the frags are doing good... pink tips are gone...some are green and some are brown.

Captive raised is really the way to go.

speedstar · #18 11/28/2006, 08:39 PM

Just to play devils advocate. All captive raised corals were wild at one time. if you are going to find that diamond coral that noone else has you are gonna need to play the wild caught game IMO. I'll agree with the 50/50 for most people, but with proper flow and light i feel the rate is more 80/20. This would be if you are using good flow including a surge device for the heavy water rush over a nice tabling colony.

I also always frag the wild as soon as I get it and yes they have always lived with the ocasional mother colony dying.

I'm a gambler so that why I still play the wild game knowing i may have a brownout for over a year.

Al G Blenny · #19 11/28/2006, 09:12 PM

Just to clarify there are three types.
Wild (doesn't need description)
Aquaculture - 100% of the coral you are getting should be grown in captivity.
Mariculture - Grown in the wild but under the control of man.

The Mariculture corals are more prone to paristies than the wild ones because they don't live on the reefs where a lot of the parisite predators would otherwise eat them. Parisites seem to flourish on the Mariculture corals. Most of this doesn't matter because we should all be running a QT anyway. If you don't QT you will get parasites no matter which of the above has them more often.

Quote:

Originally posted by hitekfreak
my personal experience, the wild caught need a lot of directional flow to survive and yes, it has 50% while cultured has 75%-100%.

I don't know the exact statistic but you are close. If every hobbiest saw how many of the corals die on the way to the wholesalers we would have a lot more people buying aquaculture. Especially Acros. I hate going to the wholesalers when they get an Acro shipment.

Quote:

Originally posted by twon8
also, wild caught what? acros? monti?

i would be much more comfortable buying a wild monti or birdsnest than i would a wild acro.

Birdsnests are terrible shippers as well. A lot of those die on the way to the wholesalers.

Quote:

Originally posted by RichConley
I've bought a couple wild caught colonies, and I generally bust a couple frags off as soon as I get them. THe frags always survive, the colonies, I've had some trouble with. I think some of them are just too dense to get adaquate flow.

It all depends on the type of Acro you get. I would never buy an Acro. hycincthys or similar. Probably like 95% of those types dye in captivity. On the other hand thin branched acros like loisette do great. You just have to have enough flow for the corals you get. Knowledge is the key. You can't keep every Acro in the same conditions.

reefman77 · #20 11/28/2006, 09:22 PM

I havent had much luck with wild caught corals. So far I am 1 for 5 but the one I have left is dooing very well. as for aquacultured I am 8 for 10. lost 2 to the damn red bugs!!!!!!!!

murphreef · #21 11/28/2006, 10:11 PM

i think as long as ur tank is doing very well and has lots of random flow wilds wont be that much of an issue....

u also have to pick nice corals that look very healthy... luckily i can go to the wholesalers at LAX where they all come in from fiji, tonga, etc and pick from there.... meaning less shipping to other shops and a lot better healthier specimene which i would think makes a huge difference....
i used to lose wild pieces but i think my issue then was low alk caused by bad salt....

now i have the following which are doing very nicely

i have a very large wild sarmentosa acro which is yellow with pink tips and ive had it now for like 8 weeks and it hasnt darkened up at all.....

i also have a smaller tennis ball sized sarmentosa which had browned out a lil but color is coming back.... it fell over into my yuma and half was killed but it has finally all regrown in the last 3 months

i also have a nice yellow table that started really small and is growing nicely and has stayed a nice yellow

i have a large wild acro nobilis staghorn which is blue with bright blue tips has hold its color pretty nicely the body is more of a blue/brown now but the tips are bright baby blue and this thing has grown an inch on all tips in about 4 weeks

i have a wild tenuis that is cream with blue coralites and neon yellow centers and it has been doing very well

i have a wild pink pocciloporra that has doubled its size in 5 months

i have a wild acro nana that is bright purple and is growing nicely

so i would say as long as u can get a fresh healthy wild acro u should be fine more than a 50-50 shot IMO

scaryperson27 · #22 11/28/2006, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by speedstar
Just to play devils advocate. All captive raised corals were wild at one time. if you are going to find that diamond coral that noone else has you are gonna need to play the wild caught game IMO. I'll agree with the 50/50 for most people, but with proper flow and light i feel the rate is more 80/20. This would be if you are using good flow including a surge device for the heavy water rush over a nice tabling colony.

I also always frag the wild as soon as I get it and yes they have always lived with the ocasional mother colony dying.

I'm a gambler so that why I still play the wild game knowing i may have a brownout for over a year.

Yes, they were all wild at one point but isn't the reason cultured corals do better because you don't have to go through that initial aclimation? The ocean has better conditions than any of the aquariums we own. It is like moving from a vacent island in the middle of the ocean to mexico city.

exoticaquatix · #23 11/29/2006, 02:41 AM

i have made a point of stocking my tank with only aqua/maricultured SPS corals. maybe a loose piece of a wild colony that broke off in shipping or two but ill never buy a wild colony for as long as im in the hobby. i have passed up some pretty cool stuff but i feel better knowing im not taking SPS off the reefs directly. LPS and zoos are another story. good luck finding a captive raised 5x7" Lobo! anyway, i have lost maybe 2 or 3 frags in last 1 1/2 years due to unknown problems and i directly associate that with hardier 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generaton captive corals. for the most part, the only color loss i have experienced was from lighting changes, not from a coral reacting poorly to other captive conditions.

-nick

tangwang · #24 11/29/2006, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rockindacheeks
i think most people avoid WC corals because of potential parasites like RBs or nudis and stuff.

Its actually the other way around. I don't think we have ever had a wild colony come in that had parasites of any kind. We have had shipments of cultured corals that were absolutley infested.

Quote:

Originally posted by Al G Blenny

The Mariculture corals are more prone to paristies than the wild ones because they don't live on the reefs where a lot of the parisite predators would otherwise eat them. Parisites seem to flourish on the Mariculture corals. Most of this doesn't matter because we should all be running a QT anyway. If you don't QT you will get parasites no matter which of the above has them more often.

I think they are prone because of the importers tanks. Don't think they are getting the parasite infestations on the culture tables in the oceans, but rather getting parasites because importers tanks are infested in L.A.

tineng · #25 11/29/2006, 08:31 AM

actually i got monti nudis from the so call aqua cultured SPS, so definately not true that cultured ones would be free of parasites...

Wild haversted ones usually arrived in worst condition then the aquacultred one but i am suspecting its the fact that those packing the cultured ones are doing it more often and has better experiences shipping them....

But i have notice that the so call 'rare' or 'uncommon' corals in the past has become common these days with the aqua-culturing practice.....wild havested one, if they survive, once in a while would offer something unquie....