Apogon leptacanthus - Breeding Log - Page 2

mwp · #26 03/01/2006, 11:05 PM

Julio, the only thing I can say is that I am aware that a LOT of people have these spawn but no one to my knowledge has raised this particular species. ORA has produced A. compressus which *SHOULD* be similar in rearing requirments to the A. leptacanthus and A. margaritophorus I'm working with. Of course, they're not about to divulge any info. I pretty much have Frank's information suggesting that they need rotifers as a first food (which, after seeing how small they are, kinda became a "DUH" type of concept).

In watching what's happening with the larvae, I HONESTLY think I underfed the first batch. Having the 40+ running around the rotifer doses seem to be cleared out PRETTY QUICKLY. However, with 40+ larvae I'm not as worried about "overfeeding" anyway. If this is indeed feeding, that would also explain why the phyto hasn't been clearing out very fast...the babies might be eating up the rotifers fast enough to prevent the rotifers from eating all teh phyto. Well that and my phyto cultures are more dense this time around. Still aching for some T-Iso but as I've also started supplementing with Selcon this time around, perhaps things will go more smoothly. Gonna examine a larvae before too long this evening and will report back on "stomach contents"!

MP

mwp · #27 03/01/2006, 11:22 PM

Well, 10X just isn't enough...time to plunk for a microscope

It sure LOOKS like their bellies are full of rotifers, at least that's what my eye perceives. Basically the gut region looks "fat" and kinda "marbled", i.e. take a bunch of rotifers and squish them together and look at the mass....that's what the larvae gut looks like at 10X.

FWIW, I discovered that part of the reason the rotifers are disappearing is that they are settling on the bottom of the specimen cup....the "gunk" that was collecting on the bottom appeared to be mostly rotifers but also some algae clumps / other detritus. So, I stirred it up - perhaps that will keep the cardinalfish happy until morning? Oh, and the other interesting part...rotifers of a wide variety of sizes in the bottom junk...some rather small but not necessarily males (did not see any "eyespots"). So maybe I have some younger or "s strain" types mixed in, and perhaps that wide variety of rotifer size will help keep these guys going long enough to get them on brine nauplii. If I can get them on brine, viola, we should have some babies!

MP

mwp · #28 03/01/2006, 11:26 PM

One other quick observation - at just shy of 24 hours in some of the larvae are starting to gravitate towards the bottom of the container. All still have a good flight response when being hunted down by a pipette...that's a good thing

MP

mwp · #29 03/01/2006, 11:39 PM

That's right, what the heck, the specimen cup was actually looking a bit less "transluscent"...algae numbers definitely did get a dent through the course of the day. So, I've added in 50 ML Nannochloropsus, 50 ML Nannochloris, and 25 ML Tetraselmis. Earlier today I added 1 drop of Prime, and I may do so again just to be safe.

MP

Julio · #30 03/02/2006, 09:26 AM

This hobby will be slow goign because people like ORA will not share info on how to breed certain species just because they want to control a market, if they are so concisous about consrvation then they should share the info with the rest of the world for the good of the hobby and stop worrying abotu money.

Kathy55g · #31 03/02/2006, 09:39 AM

They have to worry about money. This business has a dismal track record.

mwp · #32 03/02/2006, 11:09 AM

Well, we have an abrubt end to spawn #2 - I woke up this morning to find 40 some odd bodies at the bottom of the specimen container...1 baby still alive and listlessly floating around.

Oh well...I guess I did something really "wrong" and I'm going to guess it was that last addition of phytoplankton before lights out. Perhaps that extra phyto going into respiration mode altered the water chemistry too much. That's my guess for now.

They were doing so well up until that point

Matt

BrianPlankis · #33 03/02/2006, 12:46 PM

Matt,

Sorry to hear about the loss of spawn #2, hopefully after the move you can put any hatches into one of those 10 gallons you mentioned, that should help with water chemistry a great deal.

Did you have any air bubbling into the specimen container?

Brian

mwp · #34 03/02/2006, 12:55 PM

Yeah Brian, I actually did have a airfeed going, about 2-3 bubbles per second. I had also been doing period changes of a cup of water at a time...generally every few hours. Depite all that, something must have been too much for the poor little guys.

Yes, the 10 gallons...I can hardly wait!

Matt

mwp · #35 03/08/2006, 11:26 AM

3-8-06 - Another spawning? Well, it sure looks like our male is holding yet again! Female #2 is again guarding him, but if you ask me, I sure think he spawned with female #1 as the later is VERY skinny now. This spawn happened sometime in the last 24 hours or so - with the new place the tanks have been relatively unattended. Not sure how the Friday move is going to affect this spawn...probably will just end up eaten or spit with nothing I can do about it.

MP

mwp · #36 03/08/2006, 03:27 PM

So, looking at the dates, spawn #3 likely occured somewhere between 15-16 days after spawn #2. So, it looks like if you really get these guys cranking the male could be fasting roughly 50% of the time in a given month, with 2 spawns every month, and possibly upwards of 300-500 (or more) larvae in a given spawn. That's TON of cardinalfish!

mwp · #37 03/12/2006, 10:14 PM

Just a quick note - our male leptacanthus held through the ENTIRE MOVE! SWEET!

MP

mwp · #38 03/15/2006, 01:19 PM

Well Harumph - somewhere after the 12th the male either ate his eggs, spat them out or they hatched out without me noticing. No big deal...we're still recovering from the chaos of the move.

This tank now has a 10k 150 watt metal halide over it...the cardinals are sure huging the rocks more than the did before

MP

Julio · #39 03/15/2006, 02:23 PM

Hye MP,
is the male in a breeding tank by itself or do you keep in the main tank?

mwp · #40 03/24/2006, 04:08 PM

Julio, all my male cardinalfish are currently brooding in the main tank with the rest of the fish...I suspect it's part of the reason why all the Bangaii clutches and A. margaritophorus clutches have failed. Now that we've moved I have a 10 gallon for larvae, brooding or QT but I haven't gotten it set up yet. But here's the news:

3-23-06 - sometime on the 23rd the Threadfins spawned again. It's NOT a huge mouthful, but this is not surprising as the fish were not heavily feed for the week or two leading up to the move. Obviously things are going just fine despite the disruption! This puts hatching day right around the 31st - my rotifers haven't recovered yet so I'm hoping maybe someone else wants to volunteer to give the larvae a try (if I get another successful batch this time).

MP

mwp · #41 04/03/2006, 09:16 AM

Darnit, they pulled a 7 day release on me while I was out of town in NY on the 30th...worst part is I had someone who was going to give this batch a try! Both females are simply bursting at the seams with ripeness, so it shouldn't be long before another spawn!

MP

mwp · #42 04/06/2006, 11:39 PM

4-6-06 - well it looks like the leptacanthus are back on their routine - I didn't notice any courtship other than the usual hussle between these guys, but the male is again holding. Looks like they're back to a 1 week holding, 1 week eating kind of routine! Everything is back up and running, the 10 gallon is ready and waiting to be set up (guess I need to start setting it up for real vs.just having the parts on hand!). Wish me luck. Haven't seen a goby hatch since the move which is kind of disappointing...hopefully they'll come back soon -> I have someone local who's willing to try their hand at 'em (I'm going to focus my rearing efforts on the leptacanthus first).

MP

mwp · #43 04/23/2006, 10:45 PM

Ok, back for a couple quick updates. The male leptacanthus held his brood all the way up to the end, I'm pretty sure of it. I was expecting release on the 13th or so, but by the morning of the 14th he was still holding tight and we had to leave for the weekend. Of course, by the time we got back on the 16th the brood was gone.

Now, it's 4-23-06. Sometime during the afternoon today we had another spawning on these guys. This time I plan on being around for the release! The rotifer cultures are going strong, my Nannochloris and Tetraselmis are up, although I literally just restarted my Nannochloropsis and tried a new source for Isocrysis to see if I could get THAT going as well. Keep the faith!

MP

spk · #44 04/24/2006, 02:59 AM

Matt,

Sounds like your Cardinals are getting into a regular routine. Keep us posted on how this goes and above all else good luck.

Steve

dgasmd · #45 04/24/2006, 08:18 AM

when your apogon leptacanthus decide to give birth and you rear the fry for a few weeks, let me know. I would be willing to buy 30-40 of them. Same goes for your bangaii.

mwp · #46 04/24/2006, 08:42 AM

I have a feeling it's going to be at least 60 days before the fish are really "solid"...just a hunch

They start out about the same size as our Green Banded Goby larvae!

Another NOTE - apparently our two females are getting pretty PO'd with each other lately...both have torn up mouths and one has a slight fungal infection at the mouth (yet they're STILL breeding). It's definitely aggression between them that's causing these injuries....I didn't really expect to see this type of aggression as the fish matured...when they were younger things were fine. My real suspicion is that the sub-dominant female became the dominant female after the first time she spawned (spawn #2)...since then there has been increased quarreling among our two girls.

MP

mwp · #47 04/29/2006, 02:00 AM

Well, looks like our Leptacanthus may have to go co-culture with Mandarins...granted my track record with mandarin eggs is less than 3 days, so eitherthere will be larval mandarins or this leptacanthus brood will have a 10 gallon to themselves (the last spawn is still going strong and looks to be held to term - that MALE is a ROCKSTAR compared to the rest of my cardinalfish males).

Nagel · #48 04/29/2006, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mwp
FWIW, I discovered that part of the reason the rotifers are disappearing is that they are settling on the bottom of the specimen cup....the "gunk" that was collecting on the bottom appeared to be mostly rotifers but also some algae clumps / other detritus.

What is the SG of your rotifer cultures and your tank? If they differ by more than .007 thats the reason for the rotifers settling, they are being shocked and dieing..

little late for the reply, but I just read the thread

mwp · #49 04/29/2006, 08:38 AM

Ah! Nagel good notion, I"ll have to double check. M rotifers should be running around 1.020 to 1.023, wheras my display tanks typically run around 1.025. Shouldn't be to much difference, but that doesn't mean there isn't.

MP

mwp · #50 04/30/2006, 10:25 AM

4-30-06 - it's 10 AM and darnit, I MISSED the release of the leptacanthus larvae AGAIN! Note for myself - technically, that's less than a 7 day incubation...I still need to learn the signs that the male is ready, although I think one of them was noticed by Renee last night - aparently the male was spitting the eggs in and out..hmm...

Matt