Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community Archives > General Interest Forums > The Lounge

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02/07/2005, 07:37 PM
Fat Man Fat Man is offline
in the bathtub
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Way out yonder where the west commences
Posts: 528
Dog People

Mrs. Man and the little ones have decided we need a dog. I’m looking for some information/books on dog training.

Here’s some background information. We used to have three cats, but do to attrition we currently have one fat old cat remaining. After the birth of my son, six year ago, Mrs. Man became allergic to it and it became an outside only pet. The cat has never been with a dog in a friendly fashion. The dog would be allowed in the house, as they are social animals.

Neither one of us has had a dog since our high school days. My job can entail travel for up to two weeks with no more warning than a phone call in the wee hours of the morning. Given that I always felt it would irresponsible of me to have such a pet when I would depart and couldn’t find anyone to watch it. Mrs. Man’s early career was similar. She no longer has to travel on a moments notice and my travel has reduced greatly as I moved up the ladder. Dogs I had in my childhood were untrained louts, though I loved them very much. I have two conditions the first is that the dog will be trained and the second is that it will be contained. We live on two acres that are not currently fenced. I was wondering if any has experience on the electronic fences, collar with underground wire type.

Any advice would be appreciated.
__________________
Of course I could be completely mistaken.


Ed: "I hate to tell you this Dr., but there aren't any fish in that river. In fact, there isn't any river."
Dr. Lao: "That's ok. Me no use bait."
  #2  
Old 02/07/2005, 07:58 PM
BrianD BrianD is offline
Guardian of Little People
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Mattoon, IL
Posts: 8,079
I think underground fences are effective to a degree, but I don't know anyone that has one that would say they are 100% effective. My neighbors had a lab, and it would cross the fence occasionally. Another set of neighbors had a boxer, and it never went outside the fence. The only difference I know of is that the boxer was trained as a puppy to the fence. I tried a fence once when my dogs were about 8, and you would have thought I killed them when it buzzed them the first time. I never put the collar on them again, and felt guilty for weeks
__________________
Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment.

Some days you're the dog, other days you're the hydrant
  #3  
Old 02/07/2005, 08:06 PM
Wolverine Wolverine is offline
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 4,218
The Other End of the Leash by Patricia McConnell is an excellent training book. The Monks of New Skete also have a couple of very good books out. The Art of Raising a Puppy is very good, but some of the methods are dated and not used anymore. They have a new edition of How to be your dog's best friend, and this has corrected the problems from previous editions.

As for underground fences, that depends on the dog. Many of the northern breeds have high pain tolerances, and will often run right through them (this is definitely true of akitas and elkhounds).

Dave
  #4  
Old 02/07/2005, 08:08 PM
Fat Man Fat Man is offline
in the bathtub
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Way out yonder where the west commences
Posts: 528
Thanks Brian. I was considering it as a quick alternative to a phyisical fence. Beside quick Mrs. Man has issues with me fencing the place. It is still up for discussion whether we get a pup or an older dog. I just want to make sure we are prepared if (when) it does happen.

And thanks Dave, I'll look into the books.
__________________
Of course I could be completely mistaken.


Ed: "I hate to tell you this Dr., but there aren't any fish in that river. In fact, there isn't any river."
Dr. Lao: "That's ok. Me no use bait."
  #5  
Old 02/07/2005, 08:11 PM
BrianD BrianD is offline
Guardian of Little People
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Mattoon, IL
Posts: 8,079
Obviously my dogs didn't have a high pain tolerance The first time Conan got zapped, he ran on through the fence and was a half mile away before I caught up to him
__________________
Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment.

Some days you're the dog, other days you're the hydrant
  #6  
Old 02/07/2005, 08:17 PM
dc dc is offline
Moved In
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: {Wyoming}
Posts: 11,786
The only thing about underground fences is that they don't keep other dogs out. Our neighbor has one. He sweet dog never crosses it, but the other neighbors dogs are always going in annoying him.
__________________
~Debi~

Powertripping~is that a song or a dance?

RC Lounge~Humor Questionable ~Enter At Own Risk!
  #7  
Old 02/07/2005, 08:27 PM
Hoggn Hoggn is offline
no pig 2 big
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lost
Posts: 762
Depending on what type of dog you are looking for you could find a lab trained about 1yr old or so... Called started dogs... Normally have the basics down, sit, stay and all that.... You could pick out a pup and send him to be trained as well....

I too have/had an underground fence and scared the living daylights out of my 2 y/o Chessie. I had one with the run through technology with 4 levels of stimulant... The first one didn't even phase him. The 3rd one got his attention. The 4th one made him run into the kennel and not want to come out... I too gave it up from that point on!
__________________
If it's the Psychic Network why do they need a phone number?
Robin Williams
  #8  
Old 02/07/2005, 08:47 PM
pnosko pnosko is offline
Reefer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 1,487
Re: Dog People

Quote:
Originally posted by Fat Man
...we currently have one fat old cat remaining. After the birth of my son, six year ago, Mrs. Man became allergic to it and it became an outside only pet. The cat has never been with a dog in a friendly fashion. The dog would be allowed in the house, as they are social animals.
You could've chosen to have an outside wife.
__________________
Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened.
~ Anatole France (1844-1924)
  #9  
Old 02/07/2005, 09:38 PM
clavery clavery is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: westchester county, ny
Posts: 494
Another concern about the electrical fences - as said above, it doesn't keep dogs or people off your yard. We have a huge german shepherd dog - probably one of the gentlest, sweetest dogs I've ever met - but she's huge, and I had this fear that some kid would wander into our yard and Scout would run up to meet the kid, knock the kid down and either traumatize the kid or hurt it by accident, and then we'd be sued by the parents. So, we keep her fenced in the back yard where she just barks at all the kids - probably still traumatizes them, but at least she can't get to them.

You never know these days, people sue at the drop of a hat!!!

But German Shepherds are great family dogs - loyal, protective, and really sweet - and good watch dogs/alarm systems. I never worry about anyone breaking into our house, although they'd probably be licked to death!!!!!
__________________
If the shoe fits, buy another pair!!!
  #10  
Old 02/07/2005, 10:06 PM
llpoolej llpoolej is offline
Queen Supreme multitasker
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,366
Dogs are alot of work and alot of reward. I have one sitting next to me at the moment.

You need to narrow down what won't make you crazy

Hair... will hair on your floor drive you nuts? Does you or your wife clean daily? Either of you neat freaks? How about paw prints on the floor?

Size.... Do you want a large, medium or small dog??

Living area.... do you want an an indoor dog, outdoor/indoor, or out door 24/7?

Some breeds are TERRIBLE barkers. Shelties and Dobermans are probably a couple of the worst.

Health issues, some are more prone to serious health problems than others.

Personality, what sort of personality do you want? Something that lays at your feet, something that is aloof, or something that wants to be touching you all the time??

If you want an outside only ,or outside most of the day dog, you really need a good fence. The underground fences are fine for a dog that goes out to pee and play for a minute and back in. Not good for something unsupervised
__________________
....Julie


Money can't buy happiness, but neither can poverty.
- Leo Rosten
  #11  
Old 02/07/2005, 10:08 PM
llpoolej llpoolej is offline
Queen Supreme multitasker
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,366
Also, if you are ok with a dog indoor, a dog to think about it a greyhound off the track. They are usually already housebrokern, shed very little, have no doggy odor and are wonderful pets. VERY calm and quiet in the house.

They do want attention and cannot be left outdoors though. So not for someone who doesn't really want to have a dog in the house.
__________________
....Julie


Money can't buy happiness, but neither can poverty.
- Leo Rosten
  #12  
Old 02/07/2005, 10:57 PM
rcmike rcmike is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Dickson, TN
Posts: 2,491
We have a German Shepherd and a mixed breed and an invisible fence. It worked really well for about a year and then they started ignoring it. For the shepherd we got another collar for hard to train dog that seems to be doing the trick. It vibrates in addition to the shock. One of my main concerns is my dogs chewing up our neighbors stuff. The mixed breed has grown out of that stage but the shepherd is a chewing machine.
__________________
Michael
  #13  
Old 02/07/2005, 11:38 PM
KT & SJ KT & SJ is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hesperia, Ca
Posts: 294
Another issue with stray dogs entering your yard is that they can carry diseases and can give them to your dog if not vaccinated. Strays can also carry worms transmissible to your dog through poop so you may want to get the dog checked for worms periodically if you choose the under ground fence method. Kids can get in to your yard and harass your dog or the dog might hurt the kids. Also I've run hot wire and the under ground fences and after a while mine have gotten grounded and stopped working or the dog figured out a way rub and damage or chew the collar up. After this happened the first time I checked the fence daily after that just in case. To keep every one safe I ended making a large dog run to turn them out in when I couldn't supervise them. Do you have any landscape you want to preserve? Some other important questions are how active are you and how active do you want your dog? How much time will you have for the dog? Do you want one for protection as well as a good family dog? There are a few others but those should get you started along with the other questions posted on this thread. Remember, many breeds live it to their teen and some live in to their 20's so view it as if your going to have another kid except this one will have the intelligence level of a three year old kid.
__________________
How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges?
  #14  
Old 02/08/2005, 06:12 AM
Nina51 Nina51 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 5th floor, Illinois
Posts: 138
i second what wolverine said. stay as far away from the northern breeds as you can. malamutes, huskies, those dogs are born to run and given the chance, run they will!!!

my team of two sled dogs (siberians) could NEVER be let off leash when they were young. it happened a few times, purely by accident. blink an eye, they are GONE.
__________________
of all the things i've lost, i miss my gary the most.
  #15  
Old 02/08/2005, 06:28 AM
dwturpin dwturpin is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kenner LA.
Posts: 100
Stay away from dogs bred to hunt or herd and find a dog that was bred for companionship. This however eliminates large breeds.
__________________
My dog says all dogs can talk ,but they stay quiet so that man will not put them to work.
  #16  
Old 02/08/2005, 06:39 AM
Flanders Flanders is offline
I have no catchy title
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 2,696
Quote:
Originally posted by dwturpin
Stay away from dogs bred to hunt or herd and find a dog that was bred for companionship. This however eliminates large breeds.
I would like to know the reasoning behind this. IMO, dogs bred for herding make some of the most best pets.
__________________
Insert witty phrase, followed by explosive laughter
  #17  
Old 02/08/2005, 06:48 AM
clavery clavery is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: westchester county, ny
Posts: 494
Also, don't forget the dog poop. if you walk your dog, you'll pick it up as you go, but if you leave it in the yard, you'll have to scoop the poop - we make the kids do it (hehe) but it's always a battle.
But no scoop, no allowance!!!!!
__________________
If the shoe fits, buy another pair!!!
  #18  
Old 02/08/2005, 08:02 AM
der_wille_zur_macht der_wille_zur_macht is offline
m0delgator
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In the hizzy
Posts: 5,294
Here's a statue of a dog person:

  #19  
Old 02/08/2005, 08:17 AM
mike4271 mike4271 is offline
Monkeys Rule once more
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 1,015
Quote:
Originally posted by dwturpin
Stay away from dogs bred to hunt or herd and find a dog that was bred for companionship. This however eliminates large breeds.
I have German Short haired Pointer, quite honestly the best dog I have ever known. I am lucky to have 5 acres for him to run, but his nature is impeccable. ( also known as a Velcro dog, they are so friendly they stick to you ). He spends most of the day chasing lizards, hes not too keen on the Sandhill Cranes, they are to big, I think they scare him
__________________
Humans, in their infinite arrogance, are prone to think of themselves as the masters of creation, and the most important animals on the planet. Dr Ron Shimek Ph.D
  #20  
Old 02/08/2005, 08:55 AM
Mini4x Mini4x is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Maskachuckset
Posts: 73
Send a message via ICQ to Mini4x Send a message via AIM to Mini4x Send a message via Yahoo to Mini4x
Quote:
Originally posted by Flanders
I would like to know the reasoning behind this. IMO, dogs bred for herding make some of the most best pets.
My friend has a border collie / mix (maybe part huskyor shepard too), herding dogs are fun, never needs a leash, she'll run ahead when you walk her but she'll come back and run around behind you to make sure you are still with the herd..
__________________
Your signature has been removed from your profile for violation of the users agreement.
  #21  
Old 02/08/2005, 09:09 AM
bierluvre bierluvre is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Prattville, Alabama
Posts: 131
My wife and I want whatever kind of dog that is in the movie "As Good As It Gets". Ya know the dog the gay dude (Greg Kinnear) had. That dog has got to be the cutest thing on the face of the planet! Anyway, not to hijack in any way but since the "dog people" have congregated, anybody know what kind of dog that is? Thanks.
__________________
Pain is subjective.
  #22  
Old 02/08/2005, 09:15 AM
mike4271 mike4271 is offline
Monkeys Rule once more
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 1,015
Not sure of which dog, but I do know the censor is prejudiced against female dogs, Male = dog Female equals lots of asterisks
__________________
Humans, in their infinite arrogance, are prone to think of themselves as the masters of creation, and the most important animals on the planet. Dr Ron Shimek Ph.D
  #23  
Old 02/08/2005, 09:37 AM
llpoolej llpoolej is offline
Queen Supreme multitasker
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,366
Heelers are some of the BEST dogs I have ever been around. They are very smart and need alot of exercise. They will also herd your kids by the heels. I have horses so you HAVE to train them not to herd them.

Border collies are SOOO smart, they are not for an average dog owner, certainly not a first time one. They need someone who will give them a job be it agility, tracking, frisbee, or herding. Otherwise they are not fun to live with

Jack russells are adorable, and smart, but they are also a high maintence dog. They are destructive and are truly a big dog in a small body. Think little man syndrome. Great dogs for owners who know this. They also shed a ton for their body

The hunting breeds I have found to be really sweet if socialized around people as puppies. I doubt a pointer/setter left in a run from puppyhood meant ONLY for hunting would make a good pet. The pointers/setters I have been around are really good dogs

I will write more later
__________________
....Julie


Money can't buy happiness, but neither can poverty.
- Leo Rosten
  #24  
Old 02/08/2005, 10:08 AM
emilye2 emilye2 is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: In the doghouse
Posts: 318
Send a message via AIM to emilye2
bierluvre-Border Terrier

FatMan-People have covered a lot of the basics here. Another book I would add to check out is "Before you get your Puppy" by Ian Dunbar. It's got a lot of info you'll want to know before you even bring the dog through the front door. The underground fence can be extremely effective if you train well. I have a friend who's dogs will not cross the line for toy, rabbit, squirrel, or even with the owner calling. THis is with collars on or off. She took two weeks of walking the perimeter on leash with the dogs so they could hear the tone and she would correct them and say "no!" She did this every day several times a day for two weeks. Then she walked them up to the perimeter and let them get shocked (also on leash) so they knew the consequences. SHe still occasionally retrains and they are never left unattended in the yard. But they can be off leash now with no concerns. And as everyone has said, anything and anyone can still come into the yard with your dogs without a physical fence. Now, if you never leave them alone in the yard this isn't too much of a problem.
Certain breeds like the sight hounds (greyhounds, salukis, afghans etc) should never be off leash without a physical barrier. They are just too prey driven and all of their focus goes on the prey. (of course there are acceptions to every rule but you won't know if you have one until it's too late!) The northern breeds aren't for beginners for soooo many reasons hair, pulling, barking/howling, more difficult to train etc. The extra hair is one of the reason's they are hard to train to the e-fences, it's hard for the prongs of the training collar to reach thru the fur and have any effect.

Someone mentioned a greyhound, Not a bad dog for someone who hasn't had one in awhile. They are the 40mph couch potatoes. As I mentioned they really can't be trusted off leash unless they are in a fenced area.
Some of the smaller dogs that were bred for companionship are great too. (Think Shih Tzus, Pomeranians, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, Maltese) Every pure bred comes with it's own set of health concerns and just because it is a little dog PUHLEEEESE don't think it doesn't need to be trained. A little dog that pulls is just as annoying as a big dog only it's a little less tiring.
Certain "popular" breeds are experiencing some serious behavior problems. I would rather have my two year old approach a Rottie or a Doberman to pet it than a Cocker Spaniel or a Dalmation. In my experience (I've worked in animal hospitals, kennels, and doggie daycare facilities all my life) these can be some of the most unpredictable/nasty breeds encountered.

Certain breeds will cause your home insurance to skyrocket or drop you like a hot rock. (Think bully breeds, dobermans, german shepherds, rotties etc)
Herding breeds can be good if you have the time to invest. I had an Australian Shepherd that would allow my girls to use her for a step stool without a backward glance but she learned how to let herself out my front door whether the safety hook was on or not. They need to have huge amounts of physical exercise, and if it was rainy for three days in a row she got crazy. Beyond the physical the herding breeds are smart dogs, and will need tons of mental stimulation. That is why they are easy to train, but they will need something to do for the rest of their lives.
My suggestion would be to go on the AKC website and read up on different breeds that appeal to you. Even if you aren't going to go with a pure bred and prefer to head to the pound, at least you'll know some of the characteristics your mixed breed may have. (that is assuming the shelter people can tell a shepherd from a lab and lots of them can't!)
Make a prioritized list of things that are important to you in a dog and try to find one that meets your top three, top five would be perfect.
Check out www.petfinder.org for available animals in your area.
Look on www.akc.org for dog info and dog shows in your area. Stop by a dog show and approach anyone who's wandering around with a dog you are interested in. 99.8% of dog owners at a show will talk to you about their breed until you want to slap them. Just make sure they aren't getting ready to go into a ring to show or something first.
If you decide you want a pure bred check out the rescue orgs for that breed first. They can get you a dog who's temperment and behaviorial issues (if any) are well known.
Feel free to come back here for more info or PM me. Lots of people on here with great info!
__________________
~~~Emily~~~

In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog. - Edward Hoagland
  #25  
Old 02/08/2005, 10:15 AM
Flanders Flanders is offline
I have no catchy title
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 2,696
There are always mutts. My collie/shepherd mix is the best animal I've ever owned. He's beautiful, fantastic with kids, only about 30 pounds and I can let him out in the unfenced yard by himself and he'll wait by the door when he's finished. And the herding behavior is really hilarious.

Dog snobs are as bad as coral snobs.
__________________
Insert witty phrase, followed by explosive laughter
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef Central Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2009