Need input on light/tank selection

skirossi · #1 01/05/2008, 02:39 PM

I'm going to be setting up a tank soon and need some help deciding between a 29 gal and a 20 long. I will be setting up a sump/refugium so total system volume will be tank size + 10-15 gallons. I like the height and extra volume the 29 offers but with a lighting budget around $150ish, can I find something that will allow me to keep softies and LPS in a 29, or should I just go with the 20 Long since it's much shallower? I'd also like to keep the option open to maybe have a clam down the road.

I've never been to the frag swap (but will attend this year) so I'm wondering if I might be able to find a deal there (either new or used)?

I also don't mind DIY (the stand, sump, and plumbing are all going to be DIY) and have been looking at some of the metal halide stuff on nano-reef. I guess I just need some suggestions and a nudge in the right direction.

Thanks for the help.

eyebedam · #2 01/05/2008, 03:56 PM

I imself would go with a 20 long. I like the length over the height. I've had both and got tired of the 29 really quick. You could also take a look at a 40 breeder or a 58 show. You will still be able to find reasonable priced lighting and have more room for corals and for a wider selection of fish. I hope this helps.

skirossi · #3 01/05/2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eyebedam
I imself would go with a 20 long. I like the length over the height. I've had both and got tired of the 29 really quick. You could also take a look at a 40 breeder or a 58 show. You will still be able to find reasonable priced lighting and have more room for corals and for a wider selection of fish. I hope this helps.

Thanks for your input. I'm leaning more towards the 20 long, but wanted to consider the 29 since they have the same footprint (could use the same length light) and it'd allow me more water volume to stock fish in. I would love to have a 40 breeder but my budget is really aimed at a smaller system. Why did you get tired of the 29 quickly?

NeveSSL · #4 01/05/2008, 04:42 PM

I definitely agree with Jason. I have a tall tank now and pretty much hate it being tall. I have no room for putting stuff on the sand!

With $150 for lights, you could get a 2 bulb T5HO retrofit kit and, if your tank is shallow, probably keep just about anything. I do say that honestly, but also put in a shameless plug that we're doing a group buy from reefgeek.com and you could get a discount on some lighting and other things you may want to buy.

At the same time, I guess one of the small MH clip-on setups may do well for you, too.

Either way you'd be in great shape, I think. The T5s would give you just a tiny bit more control over your color as you'd have 2 bulbs to combine for color, but it wouldn't be a whole whole lot.

Hope this helps!

Brandon

skirossi · #5 01/05/2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NeveSSL
I definitely agree with Jason. I have a tall tank now and pretty much hate it being tall. I have no room for putting stuff on the sand!

With $150 for lights, you could get a 2 bulb T5HO retrofit kit and, if your tank is shallow, probably keep just about anything. I do say that honestly, but also put in a shameless plug that we're doing a group buy from reefgeek.com and you could get a discount on some lighting and other things you may want to buy.

At the same time, I guess one of the small MH clip-on setups may do well for you, too.

Either way you'd be in great shape, I think. The T5s would give you just a tiny bit more control over your color as you'd have 2 bulbs to combine for color, but it wouldn't be a whole whole lot.

Hope this helps!

Brandon

Thanks for the info, I'll keep it in mind. Are these the retrofit kit you're talking about? http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...Retrofit_Kit_w!_Bulbs_by_ReefGeek
I'm gonna have to do a little research about T5's as I've never read anything about them, and I'm unfamiliar with the retrofit kits so I'll have to look that up as well. Are they just 2 of the same bulbs or do they typically do one actinic and one regular? Or am I so far off base here it's not even funny? Like I said I know nothing about T5's so be gentle.

cee · #6 01/05/2008, 10:56 PM

If you have basic carpentry skills and don't mind building a hood, you can do a retrofit MH single-end bulb system for a bit of nothing. That's how I started out and still use it on one of my bulbs. If you have time, come see me at the swap and I can explain further. You'll be able to keep anything with such a setup and can upgrade in the future if you desire.

Dave

Siffy · #7 01/06/2008, 02:03 AM

My experience with a 29g taught me to avoid 30" tanks. Lighting is the biggest reason. I'd go with a 15g (24") or a 30g long (36") to make things easier for fit or coverage. A MH setup, minus the cost of the canopy, will probably run you about $300 with VHO or T5 actinics, but you could go with a much taller tank without worry.

I'd also recommend a 40g breeder as others have. 12" deep tanks are a huge pain to aquascape. You run out of room extremely quickly when you start thinking about leaving at least 2" from the glass on any side just to run a mag float through there. Expect to have only 6-8" to work with, whereas a 40g will give you 12-14". Petco should have their $1/gallon sale again soon (I expect March), so if you could wait, you could get one for cheap. At 16" tall, it would be easy to light as well with only a couple T5s high off the water for better coverage, and you could bring them closer and add a couple more down the road for the intensity. Odds are you wouldn't want to have many high light corals when starting out anyway.

skirossi · #8 01/06/2008, 07:12 PM

Dave, I'd definitely like to pick your brain about the MH setup, I think I'd be able to build a hood that won't look too bad on top of a tank. Where can I find you at the swap, should I just ask for you at the MTRC table and they can point you out?

Siffy, thanks for the advice. I never really thought about the 30" length being a little difficult to light, but after looking around I see that there's not a very good selection of lights for the 30" tanks.

The way everyone's talking I'm gonna end up going with the 40 breeder before it's all said and done. If I have to wait till March to get a good deal on one it wouldn't be that big of a deal, I have some live rock in the back room just waiting to go (it's in w/ powerheads and heater) It's been there for over a month now and I'm ready to see some life around it. I may pick up a fish in the near future just to have something to look at.

My biggest concern with changing my plans to the 40 Breeder is the additional cost of the extra live rock. (and wanting more corals to fill up the bigger area) Is anyone else selling some at the swap? I saw that Nevessl was bringing some but I think it's all spoken for. I have 20+ and know for sure I'd like probably another 15-20.

Thanks for the help.

Chuck

Siffy · #9 01/06/2008, 08:43 PM

It's not something typically considered when picking lighting, but only when buying. And by then it's almost too late. The cheapest way to do anything is buy exactly what you want the first time.

I wouldn't worry about more rock just yet. I wouldn't call it a mistake, but more a regret with most tanks having too much rock. And I've been as guilty as anyone with that. I had between 65 and 80lbs in a 29g. I'd gotten it CHEAP and went way overboard. It looked interesting (pics in my gallery I belive, if not I can post if you'd like), but the flow was horrible and very little room for fish or corals. Every piece of rock you add is that much less water in the system, and more water is better stability (another reason for the 40g over a smaller system). And things that are key are stability and patience. So I'd recommend trying out whatever tank you get with what you have now, and only add pieces you're 100% sure you like when you get more. Be picky, imo.

At the swap, definitely don't be scared to introduce yourself to anyone. Most people will be wearing name tags, so if you see someone you want to ask a question don't hesitate. The MTRC people are as friendly as they come.

Will

skirossi · #10 01/06/2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Siffy
I wouldn't worry about more rock just yet. I wouldn't call it a mistake, but more a regret with most tanks having too much rock. And I've been as guilty as anyone with that. I had between 65 and 80lbs in a 29g. I'd gotten it CHEAP and went way overboard. It looked interesting (pics in my gallery I belive, if not I can post if you'd like), but the flow was horrible and very little room for fish or corals. Every piece of rock you add is that much less water in the system, and more water is better stability (another reason for the 40g over a smaller system). And things that are key are stability and patience. So I'd recommend trying out whatever tank you get with what you have now, and only add pieces you're 100% sure you like when you get more. Be picky, imo.

Will

Thanks for the advice, I was just trying to get some more rock as I intend to have a sump/refugium and will have at least a 30 gallon system and only have 20 lbs of rock. I figured if I could find a deal at the swap I'd take it and save myself a little money over what the LFS wants.

Chuck

sandalscout · #11 01/06/2008, 10:31 PM

Hey Chuck, I'll be checking out the rock that Nevessl has, but if some reason it's not what I'm looking for, I'll be sure to let you know.....

I just realized you are from Clarksville also, are you in NTRC? What are you majoring in, I assume @ APSU?

skirossi · #12 01/06/2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sandalscout
Hey Chuck, I'll be checking out the rock that Nevessl has, but if some reason it's not what I'm looking for, I'll be sure to let you know.....

I just realized you are from Clarksville also, are you in NTRC? What are you majoring in, I assume @ APSU?

Sandalscout, I appreciate you keeping me in mind if the rock from nevessl doesn't work out, thank you.

I just found NTRC before the December meeting so my wife and I joined at that meeting. Are you a member? If so did you make it to the December meeting? You assumed correctly, I am going to APSU. I'm studying Manufacturing Engineering Technology.

sandalscout · #13 01/07/2008, 10:38 PM

Unfortunately, I didn't know about the NTRC, or the meeting, until just a few days after the meeting occured. I'm not a member, yet, but will be attending the meeting and joining.

I am also an APSU student, but I am on a hiatus. I'm a geology major, I've got about a year left, just hard to find motivation to continue when I'm making twice the starting wage of a geologist at my current job as a database systems engineer.

See you at the swap!

skirossi · #14 01/08/2008, 10:25 AM

That's too bad you didn't know about NTRC in time, John (Foggy54) has quite a setup! 3 different tanks, w/ a 110 gal in wall display that was absolutely beautiful!

My neighbor went to APSU for geology for his first 3 years and then transferred to Murray State. His wife also is a geologist, she just got her first job making around mid-30's. I understand if you can get in with an oil company there is a better potential for higher wages. What's lead you to study geology? I could see how it'd be difficult to leave a higher paying job though. I got lucky and left the army (after 12 yrs) so I'm going to be getting a raise when I finally get out into the working world again. Though I think I will have to find a part time job to support this hobby once I get things going.

See you at the swap too!

eyebedam · #15 01/09/2008, 10:30 PM

Check your pm

skirossi · #16 01/10/2008, 04:29 PM

Thanks to Jason (eyebedam) for selling me a 40 breeder. It was nice meeting you and hope you fared alright driving back to Nashville in this crappy weather.

Now that tank selection is out of the way, if anyone sees an overflow, skimmer (like the 2 that gsusfreak has scooped up in the last few days!!), and any deals on 36" lighting please let me know!

Siffy, I would be interested in seeing a pic of your tank with all that rock in it, I looked at your gallery and didn't see any FTS.

Thanks again Jason!

gsusfreak · #17 01/10/2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by skirossi

Now that tank selection is out of the way, if anyone sees an overflow, skimmer (like the 2 that gsusfreak has scooped up in the last few days!!), and any deals on 36" lighting please let me know!

heheheh

...i had to keep my eyes out for a couple skimmers since ive been without one for a year on my nano...and my new 46bf needed one too

oh yea, i believe chadfarmer has a 36" 4 bulb tek setup that he wanted to sell (i almost bought that too).....i think he listed it for $175 with bulbs.......thats a steal! (i decided to get a new setup instead)

Siffy · #18 01/10/2008, 05:00 PM

Yep, only a few closeup pics of my old 5g nano (no longer in service). Here's the 29 (also, not anymore).

I tried several orientations, but it never really worked out well. That one rock on the left side nearly covered in hair algae weighs around 30lbs.

And it's jmo, but I wouldn't recommend a remora. I've got a remora pro sitting in a bucket that'll likely never see water again, but it's in new condition. I'd go with an in-sump, needlewheel design.

eyebedam · #19 01/10/2008, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by skirossi
Thanks to Jason (eyebedam) for selling me a 40 breeder. It was nice meeting you and hope you fared alright driving back to Nashville in this crappy weather.

Thanks again Jason!

Anytime its was good meeting you also. Thanks for the tornado tip on my drive back. As soon as I got out of Clarksville crappy weather I drove right back into it in Nashville. I hope the tank works out for you. Now you get to build a stand.

NeveSSL · #20 01/10/2008, 05:45 PM

I've got an overflow. Its a horizontal overflow. Its 24" wide, 4.5" tall, and 6 inches deep I think. Its in my tank now but I'll be putting in a thinner one soon. If you're interested, let me know and you can have it. I would rather give it away than throw it away.

Brandon

skirossi · #21 01/10/2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eyebedam
Anytime its was good meeting you also. Thanks for the tornado tip on my drive back. As soon as I got out of Clarksville crappy weather I drove right back into it in Nashville. I hope the tank works out for you. Now you get to build a stand.

Glad to hear you made it in one piece. I can't wait to get the tank started! I may go buy the lumber tomorrow and build the frame, it all depends on if I can get my saw back from my neighbor tonight or not.

skirossi · #22 01/10/2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NeveSSL
I've got an overflow. Its a horizontal overflow. Its 24" wide, 4.5" tall, and 6 inches deep I think. Its in my tank now but I'll be putting in a thinner one soon. If you're interested, let me know and you can have it. I would rather give it away than throw it away.

Brandon

Brandon,
Thank you, I am definitely interested in it! I am wondering though, if it's a HOB or will I need to drill the tank to use it? I may have forgot to mention the type I was interested in is the "U" style (weir?) like on melev's reef. Like this( the pic is about half way down w/ the grass in the background) : http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/routing.html Is it clear acrylic, and do you have any pics of it? Thanks again!

Chuck

gsusfreak · #23 01/10/2008, 06:45 PM

chuck, you should definitely drill it....if im correct, the 40B are drillable......i took the risk of using a cpr overflow box....and one day, it lost the siphon, and i had a ton of water on my bedroom floor

skirossi · #24 01/10/2008, 06:55 PM

Siffy, thanks for posting up the pics, I see what you mean about too much rock! I'm a long ways from having that large a volume of rock in the tank, especially now that I have the 40B!

gsusfreak, thanks for the heads up on the light, I'm not sure it's what I'm needing right now, I'm curious about it, but am waiting for more info from him. I'm still gonna talk to Cee at the swap about DIY MH that is pretty budget minded and hope that'll get me in the door for less $$. I'm a little apprehensive about drilling, but don't want to spend the $25 a hole I've heard mentioned on here. I guess I'll have to talk to Terry/Terrie and see if we can't do it at a meeting or something. I definitely don't want the risk of having a flood, the tank will be in my living room and I just put in hardwood floors last year, I can't ruin that!

Thanks for the advice!

gsusfreak · #25 01/10/2008, 08:35 PM

MH would be cool especially if its cheap....i decided against it strickly because bulb replacements range from 6-9 months, the bulbs are pricey, and too much heat for my liking (my family prefers cold over hot).......a 4 bulb T5 setup over a 40B will be able to keep just about anything (yes, SPS and clams)...T5's are less expensive, have longer bulb life, and runs cool....many people in our club has had experiences with T5.....hope that info helps a little.....(i am in no way trying to steer you away from MH, just trying to inform from what ive read/research)