Mud filter???

[great_joe]

I have read some stuff about using a mud filter with macro algae running on a 24 hour photoperiod.

There are claims that it eliminates the need for a skimmer and supliments, reduces nitrates and very very good method of nutrient export.

I am planning on setting up a reef tank with this method of filtration. can anyone share thier comments and experiences about this system?

also i dont quite understand why it eliminates the need for a skimmer? sure it provides oxyen, but what about the mechanical filtaration the skimmer provides? how does the mud filter compenste for this?

any comment would be helpful. thanks

[harper]

A lot has been written on the topic. Search for EcoSystem. Many will have differing opinions. Some use it with protein skimmers. In fact EcoSystem now offers systems with skimmers. The over all technique is to use a bare bottom tank and siphon out as much detritus with water changes. I guess that is how particulate matter is removed…settling and siphoning. Heres their home page. They have some articles posted.
http://www.ecosystemaquarium.com/index.html

[Snailman]

I planted several types of Caulerpa and several mangrove trees in fine sand (like play sand) and they grew like crazy so that told me that they were eating nutrients. They were planted in a large sump and refugia. I did not have a bare bottom either. I let the critters in the sand bed take care of it. I ran them on the same photo period as the tank.

[great_joe]

thanks for the info.

Is there a limit on the amount of macro algae you can put in the sump? and is it really esential to run the lights 24/7?

[great_joe]

thnks for the info.

i was wondering if there is a limit to the amount of caulerpa that can be added to a system and if is it necessary to run the lights 24/7 ?

[pumpdogs]

I have been running the ecosystem without a skimmer since december.So far so good I am going to post pictures of my tank tonight.

[stevem650]

Have a ecosystem on my 90gal and now 150gal for 1 1/2 years. I use miracle mud and calurpra. I have never used a protein skimmer. The unwanted nutrients are removed by the calurpra. My water is crystal clear and never had an algae outbreak. I keep my eco lights on 24/7. I would run carbon if my water needs polishing. I started with a few handfulls of calurpra and trim as necessary. I recommend a ecosystem for any reef tank.

[Acolin]

Refugium questions

An established constant-daylight, mud-based algae refugium, known as the Ecosystem filter DOES replace the protein skimmer, obviates the need for expensive and dubious supplements, WILL reduce nitrates and is an EXCELLENT method of biological and chemical filtration, by way of nutrient export.

Instead of a bubbling foam fractionator, which needs regular adjustment or new air stones, as frequently as every month, the ecosystem filter has a green garden of lush seaweed, which needs harvesting, just as often. The seaweed is the biological and chemical filter. An ecosystem is NOT a mechanical filter. Neither is the protein skimmer. Detritus is stirred up weekly, allowed to settle and siphoned away from the bare display tank bottom monthly.

The algae cannot react as quickly to changes in bioload as a protein skimmer. Shortly after a heavy feed, the skimmer dribbles dissolved organics into its collection cup as quickly as a full baby slobbers down its bib. Yet, the ecosystem filter is less expensive or fussy to maintain in the long run than the skimmer.

Ecosystem filters do have some minor benefits. They can help stabilize early morning dips in pH, by running its lights 24 hours and improving CO uptake. Swings in pH can be smaller. Nice for stability. Important for aquariums where stability is nowhere near the natural environment. (Temperature on a natural reef, for example, takes a year to fluctuate a few degrees.)

The rich macro-algae beds of ecosystem filters do promote skin-nourishing colloids for the fish. This can be beneficial enough to reduce to prevent the ugly hole in the head disease. There is evidence that Caulerpa in good lighting aids in the creation of thin sticky emulsions in fish, which acts as a therapeutic coating agent. These emulsions are colloids, which protect fish from skin and gill disorders. Moreover, marine algae contain several substances that have a significant antibiotic effect towards fungal and pathogenic bacteria diseases. This may be the reason for the success of ecosystems in reversing head and lateral line disorders.

There is no limit to the amount of algae in the sump, try three or four different types. The idea is NOT to fill the refugium, but to grow a thick forest. The lights must be on 24/7 in order to prevent the algae from going sexual and propagating into the display tank.

FAMA magazine ran a wonderfully informative series of articles last year, painstakingly crafted by a dedicated hobbyist, who thought that reef keeping should be more natural than the energy and money intensive methods prompted by aquarium shops. They sell reprints. The issues are:

1. "Making Reefs with Mud" (part one, page 48), published September 2002,
2. "Making of Reefs with Mud" (part two, page 80), published 10/02,
3. "Making Reefs with Mud, Part three," (page 58, November, 2002)
4. "Making Reefs with Mud, Part four," (page 84, 01-03)
5. Making Reefs with Mud, Part five," (page 66, 06-03)
6. Making Reefs with Mud, Part six," (page 98, 01-04)

A seventh installment will appear in the next few months.

[great_joe]

thanks,

MM isnt available here in the philipppines, can i use mud collected from the nearby beach? will this have the same result and has anybody tried doing this.. im realy curious

[Brewboy74]

I would say no. I would be leary of mud from a beach because it could be contaminted with god knows what. You can order this stuff online and that would be your best bet.
HTH

[SE TX HYDROPONICS]

BREWBOY74........I WOULD ALSO BE A LITTLE LEARY ABOUT SAYING THAT YOU CAN ONLY USE MM.....IMO...THERE ARE SUBSTITUTES.....WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ACOLIN? FWIW...I USE MM.....BUT AM THING ABOUT EXPERIMENTING WITH SOME OTHER MUD SUBSTRATES IN THE NEAR FUTURE....OH CRAP....I TYPED THIS IN ALL CAPS...LOL..."GET A MAD ON"

[SE TX HYDROPONICS]

oops i meant to say "thinking" not "thing"

[Brewboy74]

I am not a slave to MM, there are other products out there that are most likely just as good. I would'nt gather "wild" mud if you will, it is just to dangerous.

[great_joe]

i get your point but although MM can b ordered online its just too expensive........i think the beach is realy clean, lots of mudskippers, fidler crbs, strfishes, little fishes, anemoes even and macros..., im deciding between too choices ., first is to use that mud and second is to have local divers collect live sand

[Acolin]

I say using soft, silty mud from the beach just because it looks like nutritious Miracle Mud is not the same thing. That is like putting an air stone in a PVC pipe and calling it a protein skimmer. It is NOT the appearance of bubbles that makes a pipe function as a protein skimmer; it is the complete design. Therefore, it is NOT the soft, silty nature of the mud that gives it a special function in the constant-daylight, mud-based algae refugium; it is the complete design.

The special muds used in refugiums are designed to promote macro algae growth. They are rich in iron and other essential chemicals. The muds are expensive sure, compared to other muds and substrates, but they are cheap compared to the protein skimmers and regular activated carbons, both of which the muds replace. Besides, if the proper mud is too expensive for you, then you won’t be able to afford nice corals, proper air stones and replacement carbon either. In the long run, a properly set-up constant-daylight, mud-based algae refugium, which pulls excess nutrients from the aquarium system, is less expensive to maintain than a traditional skimmer based system. If you are new to mud/algae filters, I would get the special stuff and start off right.

Otherwise, since you have access to soft, silty sand, you might consider going in a completely different direction and setting up a deep sand bed instead.

[Brewboy74]

Thank you Acolin. My point but much better made. I think if you are going to put hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of livestock into a tank why skimp a couple of hundred bucks on your filter and risk the health of your animals. JMO

[great_joe]

thanks for sharn ur point of view, ..... a dsb it is and a fudge wid marcros and LS substrate for suplementary filtration