$1,000 perfect light set-up/ help the MH newbie

[reefdna]

Here's the story.........My wife has budgeted me $1,000 for the lighting of our almost finished aquarium. I need advice and help in making it as perfect for the orice as I can.

My reef tank:
30"H x 60"L x 24"W
3 sided Starphire glass
Will house mostly LPS as well as some zoos and normal reef verts and fish.
I would like the lights to sit 12" off of the water for space reasons


My needs:
I need advice as MH's are new to me especially with what supplementals I will need along with them. I am not afraid to DIY as long as I have tried and true instructions. I have experience with electrical and carpentry though not an expert.
I am trying to accomplish as maintenance free as possible and as energy effecient with the best results.
retrofit/custom built/complete fixtures. What would you do if you were me?

Thanks for any help I can get.

Ed C

PS I may be able to take it up to $1,500 if it was perfect in every way!+.

[ReeferMonkey]

$1000 is a pretty good budget - $1500 is astronomical.

You have two basic options - open top or canopy.

With a canopy, you could save yourself some money by going with retrofits. At 24" wide, you could do either 250W DE in Reef Optix III reflectors by Sunlight Supply every 2', or you could do 250/400W SE in Spider reflectors on a similar spacing. I would go with DE if I were you - the reflectors for DE are much better. You could supplement the DEs with either VHO (for the traditional purple actinic) or T5 (for the Blue+ look... doesn't flouresce corals as well).

If you have an open top, I would look into the Sunlight Supply Maristar line of fixtures, AquaMedic AquaSpacelights or the Giesemann fixtures. All of these fixtures are high end (Giesemann being the top dog - best construction, good reflectors) and cost quite a bit. Giesemann makes some pretty neat systems that have moonlights w/ timers built in, etc. but they are not cheap. All of these companies make fixtures with either 3 250W DE or 2 250W DE + 1 150W DE. Also available are fixtures with 2, 3 or 4 250W DE and T5 actinics.

In general I would stay away from anything with PC actinics (they suck). You may get the most flexibility with several ROIII kits - you could stagger bulbs (10K/20K/10K/20k/10K). Really, since you're not trying to keep SPS, you may not need to blow your whole budget on lights. Maybe get a more modest 60" fixture and try to get a chiller or something. That $1000/$1500 could get you more than just lights - lots of neat equipment out there.

HTH.

[Ruu]

With your coral requirements, you can definitely do 250W halides rather than 400's (if you want clams on the sandbed at some point in the future then you might want to consider them though). I would do 3 x Reef Optix III pendants with 3 x Icecap 250W ballasts (some will argue for magnetic ballasts, but I like the ability to use any bulb, and less heat from electronics). At this point, you can either go for a high-K (14k or 20k - I like the Phoenix 14k) bulb and go without supplementation, or add some actinics (VHO's are still very popular here - others can argue on 2 or 4).

For unsupplemented halides (which you could try first if you liked), that should cost you around $900 (, supplement with VHO's and you are talking a little over $1000, but not too much.

Dave

[Ruu]

Giesemann fixtures are sexy. I cant afford them though.

Dave

[reefdna]

Thanks reefermonkey and ruu for the posts

More info: the the aquarium is Eurobraced and will have an open top canopy. The aquarium is being built in between two bookcases so the top will remain open and still have a removable face for access. Kinda the best of both the worlds as far as nothing showing and open for heat to dissapate. So it can be either a good looking fixture or an ugly but effective retrofit that puts out allot and still be fine.

http://www.giesemannlicht.com/page.php?page=home
WOW I checked out the site for these and holy cow they are expensive. The fixture with 3 250W MH with 2 54W T5's is $2,299
That's a hair out of budget but a great read for anyone interested in the really high end stuff. The most interesting facts are that each large fixture has a microprocessor that can use every bulb to simulate the sun and lunar cycles over a 28 day period! That's cool! Most people have to design this through a neptune controller or something similar.

http://www.specialty-lights.com/maristar-hqi-t5.html
These look pretty good though I haven't found any fixture that is capable of 400W's. Is 250W enough to make the corals I am keeping thrive and can a clam survive with ta 30" deep tank and 3 250W MH's above?

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_...es.asp?CartId=
I could only find technical info on mairne depot about this fixture and it seems to only come to 2 250W MH's and a weak actinic bulb (24W) I beleive that the supplemental bulbs are really only to add color anyways right? good looking and very affordable though which is really appealing. If aquamedic does make fixtures with 3 or more MH's correct me please. I googled a search and mainly came up with mrine depot and other talk forumsas results.

OK so it looks like with the budget we can pretty much do either a retro or full fixture. I do have a clam that I am raising in my nano right now but do plan to place in the display tank in a year or two. Eventually, like most addicts, I will get into the hard stuff like SPS's when I finish mastering softies, again about a year away in my estimation.

With these additional considerations I believe I need no less than 3 250W DE MH's and 2 T5 purple actinic (maybe one blue and one purple)
However 3 400W DE MH's and 4 T5 actininc bulbs would totally rock! and both solutions fit into the budget.
Waht am I missing and how would you do it yourself. Cheap retro with high output? or Spend a little more get a sleek look and a litttle more than needed lighting?

Thanks again and I will post more of my findings fromt the homework you guys are giving me. I really do appreciate the help.

Ed C

[ReeferMonkey]

If you do a retro, look into Lumenarc LA3 Mini reflectors. Just search RC for lumenar and you'll get a bunch of hits. Best reflector for SE bulbs. That reflector/mogul with some 250W or 400W ballasts and you'd be rockin'.

I like the AquaMedic OceanLights w/ DE + T5. I believe the 5' and the 6' both have 3 250W DE. I don't know of anyone that makes fixtures with 400W DE + supplementation. IceCap makes a dual 400W DE fixture if I'm not mistaken.

BTW check Premium Aquatics for typically the best prices on these lights/fixtures. Their customer services is pretty highly rated and they sponsor RC.

Edit: Heh if I save you some money feel free to kick me a commission

[Mark]

If you're going to go with lps, a 48" geissman would be plenty for a 60" tank. I had a 60"x24" tank that I lit with 2 250'watt moguls and some vhos. I would have opted for the 48" geissman with dual 250's and T5 supplementation. Premium sells them for like $800

[thrlride]

I highly recommened a pair of Reef Optix III pendants with 250 watt DE halides in them. This will cost you $600 shipped to your door with phoenix 14k bulbs. You don't need actinics with this light kit but I still use them. I like the dusk/dawn effect and the look of the corals with just actinics. two 110 watt VHO's with actinics should be well under $200.

[alrha]

I have the same tank as you and am getting my fixture from Cool Touch. Its ~$1,000 fully loaded.
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...1&goto=newpost

[ReeferMonkey]

I don't like that fixture from Cool Touch - or any generic flat reflector, for that matter. If you spend that much money you should get a good reflector - it really makes all the difference in the world.

[reefdna]

Mark,
do you think the geissman with only 2 250 MH's would penetrate a 30" deep tank effeciently enough?

[reefdna]

The cool touch fixture sounds good but what is the scoop on the reflector.? AS a MH newbie what makes for a good reflector as compared to a bad one? What is the important traits to look for?

[reefdna]

PS I want to request that if anyone has the url's to the company sites for these pendants or even a distributor site with lots of info, that they post the links with their message. this is really turning into a great post!

[alrha]

i dont know much about reflectors either - perhaps Cool Touch can upgrade the reflectors is possibe, why dont you post in that thread and ask them.
Could two 250's with good reflectors really be better than three 400's with generic reflectors?

[ReeferMonkey]

If I'm not mistaken, that's how the whole 250W DE is better than 400W SE idea came about. Sanjay tested the 250W DE in ROIII compared to a 400W SE in a Spider reflector and the 250W DE outperformed the 400W SE. Hence the mistaken assumption that 250W DE bulbs were "brighter" than 400W SE.

It's all about the reflector. Which is why, if you have the money, you should either be using a Lumenarc (regular or mini, depending on tank size) or a ROIII.

Edit: The reflector is also what makes T5 better than T12. Think about how much light you're losing. Search for Lumenarc here on RC, one of the threads in the SPS forums has a pic from inside the reflector while the bulb is lit. Someone also posted 2 250W DE in ROIII next to 1 400W SE in a Lumenarc. The Lumenarc beats the pants off the ROIII.

Edit2: www.pacificgardensupply.com (I think that's the URL), they're a sponsor on here - they sell the Lumenarc. www.sunlightsupply.com fabricates the ROIII, but www.premiumaquatics.com is probably the best price on them. You need to do some reading before you buy anything. Search RC for "sanjay PAR test" or something similar and you should be able to find the link to his website - it shows the performance of the reflectors. JBNY also has tested PAR of various bulbs on different ballast. Also very informative. I have the link on my home PC, I'll post it tonight if I can.

[reefdna]

This is the link to the thread I started asking about cool touch's reflectors. We'll follow it and see what they say.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=605080

[reefdna]

reef monkey:
MH newbie Question here What exactly is the ROIII?and do you have a link to the posts. For some reason I cannot search due to non-premium member status at the moment

[alrha]

looks good. what is great about Cool Touch is their pricing and that they custom build each fixture, so we can really get what we want. I'm sure they would provide a better reflector if requested.

From what i understand, the advantage of DE bulbs is that they are smaller and therefore can fit in a smaller/more efficient reflector.

Also keep in mind that you will have fewer options on 400W DE bulbs than you would on 250W DE's.

I dont know much about reflectors, but i would think that i would prefer the light to be more spread out evenly rather than focused under the bulb.

[ReeferMonkey]

Originally posted by alrha
I dont know much about reflectors, but i would think that i would prefer the light to be more spread out evenly rather than focused under the bulb.

Then you want Lumenarc reflectors on SE bulbs. FWIW, at no point did I mention 400w DE bulbs.

ROIII = Reef Optix III reflector by Sunlight Supply. Sanjay Joshi's PAR analysis has shown this to be the most efficient reflector for DE bulbs although the distribution is very focused under the bulb. His most recent tests, of the Lumenarc reflector, show it to be highly efficient at evenly distributing the light. The larger reflectors also cover a 3'x3' area pretty effectively.


I think I just made up my mind for my next tank - Lumenarc LA3s (maybe Minis) on 250W SE ballasts, with either EVC 10K or AquaConnect 14K. Got to check the PAR on those.

[cannarella]

Try looking at www.hellolights.com

Andy

[ReeferMonkey]

Lumenarc thread

[ReeferMonkey]

Ballast thread

[ReeferMonkey]

JBNY's 250W lamp comparison

The last two threads are stickies in this forum.

[alrha]

The DE bulbs also typically fit into a lower profile fixture (4").
I also think it works out cheaper with a DE fixture from Cool Touch than SE.

Would any of those reflectors fit in a 4" fixture? (or cant they just make their own reflectors in the same style?)

[ReeferMonkey]

Those reflectors are computer-modeled - they're propreitary. I doubt Cool Touch can use them.

How do you figure the cost is lower? I got to get some work done, meeting in a bit - but I'll put a punch list together of how I would build the SE system.