Question for T5 Users

[sammy33]

Here are my PAR readings on my T5 light system when I first setup. 4 rows of 2x39w with Ice Cap reflectors (312w Total). The Geisemann bulbs and Advance ballasts were about 3 months old. Actinic +, Midday, Aquablue, Pure Actinic. Bulbs 5" above water. This is a 125g 22" deep.


This is a recent shot after about 6-7 months with corals.


I feel I have fair color on my SPS. My original plan for this tank was a mostly mixed reef but my SPS have done well with color and growth (better than I expected) so I am leaning towards keeps more Scleractinians these days. I think my currently undersized skimmer and a few equipment failures are holding me back from getting great color/growth. I will probably add two more rows of T5's for a total of six along with a skimmer upgrade and two more nano stream 6055's. This should help make the SPS in this tank a bit happier.

[hahnmeister]

Your light levels are just about perfect for just about anything you want to do. 130-190 on the bottom is perfect for medium to lower light corals, or some deepwater acros even, open brains, etc. The 200-400 range is great for SPS then up top.

I just wanted to say, you have about the most ideal spread one could hope for as far as lighting goes, I wouldnt change a thing.

[sammy33]

Here is a friends T5 tank I measured. This is a 72g Bowfront 22" deep reef with 5x54w T5, TEK reflectors, Actinic+, Aquablue, Midday, Pure Actinic, AquaBlue and 1x39w T5, TEK reflector, Actinic+. All ballasts are Advance spec ballast. Bulbs are about 6" off the water. This reef tank has one of the biggest, healthiest looking colonies of Pom Pom Xenia I have ever seen!

[fijiblue]

Have you done PAR reading without the fans on as well? I'd like to know the difference.

No, but im sure they would be slightly lower

Great pics guys!

[barjam]

Here are my PAR readings on my T5 light system when I first setup. 4 rows of 2x39w with Ice Cap reflectors (312w Total). The Geisemann bulbs and Advance ballasts were about 3 months old. Actinic +, Midday, Aquablue, Pure Actinic. Bulbs 5" above water. This is a 125g 22" deep.

That is wild, so you basically have four bulbs over any given section? I have 4x bulbs using higher par bulbs three inches from the water and I can't color up certain corals (purple digi/some acros). Hahn said your par numbers are perfect? Mine would have to be higher.... On the acros that won't color up they just turn pale but still grow really fast. Purple tip varieties do not get purple tips.

Weird.

[hahnmeister]

No, I said sammy33's PAR levels are perfect.

Colors, or lack if them, could be due to a number of reasons... elevated organic levels, flow, calcium/alalinity values, temperature. Often times too much light is worse than too little, esp at first. I usually put my corals on the bottom of the tank until they start to color up a bit more/grow a bit/get good polyp extension... then I start to move them into higher light areas to see what happens.

[SecretAgentMan]

mine are about 2" off the surface of the water.

-SAM

[sammy33]

Originally posted by barjam
That is wild, so you basically have four bulbs over any given section? I have 4x bulbs using higher par bulbs three inches from the water and I can't color up certain corals (purple digi/some acros). Hahn said your par numbers are perfect? Mine would have to be higher.... On the acros that won't color up they just turn pale but still grow really fast. Purple tip varieties do not get purple tips.

Weird.

Results may vary. I always feel like my lighting levels are too low especially when I see another tank that is doing better than mine that is using metal halide. In most cases after closer inpection of the "entire reef system" I usually find that there is a lot more going on than just bright lights.

I think my SPS colors are fair. I have had some troubles with my tank and it is still young (only 7 months with corals now) so I don't expect super intense colors. I also only have your basic garden variety SPS like orange and purple digitata, blue and yellow millepora, purple tip acro etc. but nothing spectacular...yet.

I also have what I consider an underpowered skimmer. This limits my nutrient export capacity. Upgrading my skimmer to a higher powered unit will likely help improve my reef.

I do have a good amount of flow in my tank with two koralia 4' s and two nano 6055's on a mulicontroller. The Tunze's pulse and alternate so I have about 3900GPH going at any one time with a potential flow of 6240 GPH including my return pump.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the lights are only a portion of what is contributing to the success of my SPS and other corals.

[hahnmeister]

Yeah, my secret to what my fellow local club members suggest is a wicked looking tank is based on a few things besides just lighting. I have alot of water turnover... 60-90x is my goal usually. A calcium reactor is beyond what I could do with manual dosing or just a kalk reactor. I run carbon, and a very effective skimmer. From time to time, I will even dose ethanol to 'strip' my water of nutrients, although as the tank matures, this is less and less necessary. It was more to get the tank through the initial cycling, but once past that 6-9 month period, the tank balances out and nutrients usually arent as much a problem. Then I start dosing potassium, iron, iodine, etc. (Oh, and rather than fancy Fauna Marin Ultra Organic for $40 a little-bottle, get KENT Essential Elements or Coral Accel... its the same thing for 1/4 the price). I am considering an Ultralith/Zeovit setup... not sure yet. But yeah, there is alot more than just lighting going on.

[barjam]

No, I said sammy33's PAR levels are perfect.

That was the post I was referring to, sorry for the confusion.

I don't believe I have a nutrient problem. I can go 3-4 days before I have to touch the glass and besides a nutrient problem would show up with darker corals, not paler corals, no? Most corals look great the ones that don't (Valida, couple other acros) drive me crazy.

On a side note I have had zero luck with purple digi turning purple. I swapped one of my aqua blues for a super actinic last week and within a week my oldest and larget colony has started turning purple, no other changes to the tank. The other two purples have not responded.

It is interesting that you dose... could I get you to PM or post your dosing schedule? I may pick up some Coral Accel tomorrow. The only thing I dose currently is iron.

Thanks

[sammy33]

My purple digitata is pretty good but not great.


The tops are purple but a large portion of the base is basically brown. I have seen colonies this size in other systems where the entire coral is basically purple.

The way I understand what may happen in some reef tanks is the pigment layer(coral color) moves in front of the zooxanthellae layer (symbiotic brown algae) to shield the symbiotic algae from excessive light.

The zooxanthellae (brown) may move forward and in front of the pigment layer (coral color) in situations when the light is lower. This allows the symbiotic algae the best chance for photosynthesis.

My basic theory on light levels pertaining to coral color is - by slightly overlighting the corals you may have an easier time showing the pigments(color). I am not saying strong lights alone will make for a coloful reef. Strong lighting must be balanced with good flow, waste processing (nutrient export), replenishment (water changes, dosing), stability, consistency and patience.

With that said I think I need a wee bit more light in my tank. What intrigues me about T5 lighting systems is their inherent closeness to the required light range of most corals. I have heard from several reliable sources and studies (Tyree, Riddle, etc.) that most corals have a natural PAR requirement in the 200-600 range. Even very demanding SPS thrive in PAR around 350-550. All of the data I have seen on T5 lighting setups places them very close to this 200-600 range in the average reef tank (20" to 24" deep).

My T5 system is just a little shy of this with a total PAR range of about 150 to 550 with most of the reef structure in the 190 to 420 range. I would like to bump this up a wee bit as I am liking SPS corals more and more these days.

While I agree with Hahn that this 150 to 550 range I posted from my tank is likely "perfect" for the average mixed reef I think the numbers that fijiblue originally posted may be more perfect for a SPS tank. I like your numbers fijiblue!

[hahnmeister]

Purple Digi is an odd one. It grows like a weed no matter what it seems, but to get it to really 'pop' you need to put it under loads of light. I have the same stuff, and it looks similar... but I gave some to a buddy a while back and it has turned a wicked royal blue all over... almost like a superman monti. His tank is a 75g with an Aqualine light... dual 250wattDE 10,000Ks with 2 rows of T5s... so bright as all heck... yet he also has RBTA's in that tank that do very well, which is odd, because I got one from him and put it in my 6x39wattT5 40B tank and it went and hid under a rock because it was too much light. Go figure.

Could be something else besides the light, thats what I think. prugs has some of the stuff in his 210 as well, planted almost right under a ushio 14,000K... and its turning blue as well.

I put my huge colony right under a where the 14,000K travels (its on a light mover), and it doesnt do jack. I can tell you one thing though.. it does like a warmer spectrum to turn blue... 10,000Kish. Under 20,000Ks it will stay dark, almost brown, no matter what.

[sammy33]

Hahn - Some interesting parallels here. My rose BTA has basically hid under the rocks for several months now. It was wide open and in front in my HQI system but only exposes its tips from just behind a rock in my T5 tank.

Another interesting note is that my purple digi did not show the colors in the photo I posted until I added the Midday 6000K lamp back in my lamp mix. My red/orange capricornus also look better with this warmer spectrum.

[barjam]

I wonder if some of these corals decide "too much light" based on specific wavelengths. Perhaps that RBTA sees a crap load of 450nm and assumed there is way too much light and goes to hide where another coral is keying off of 420nm and decides it is time to hide it's zoax with some pigments (those wavelengths are just example).

[bohlke]

4-5" for me, its as close as I can get with the canopy. Is that a tek t5 light? Here is a full tank shot replacing 2 ati blueplus, 3 aquablue, and 1 ge 6500 at 15 months (manual mode all settings the same)

[The Grim Reefer]

You need to check the particular brand of T5 you are running before getting exited about cooling the cold spot. GE, Osram and Narva lamps have them. If the lamp is dim for over 2" at the labeled end it has the cold spot. Giesemann and Aquascience lamps are made by Narva so those and the GE's have a cold spot.

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by bohlke
4-5" for me, its as close as I can get with the canopy. Is that a tek t5 light? Here is a full tank shot replacing 2 ati blueplus, 3 aquablue, and 1 ge 6500 at 15 months (manual mode all settings the same)

That purrrrdy. Great pic. Pretty serious color shift there.

[hahnmeister]

So are there any bulbs that DONT have a cold spot exactly? I didnt think there were... (unless its an induction lamp).

[jennmac415]

what is a cold spot and is it a good thing or bad?"

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
So are there any bulbs that DONT have a cold spot exactly? I didnt think there were... (unless its an induction lamp).

ATI doesnt, I would have to look at the others again. I dont think UVL does but I could be wrong

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by jennmac415
what is a cold spot and is it a good thing or bad?"

Dunno, The Giesemanns use them and I have heard from a few people that really don't like the lamps, didn't last long. Not really sure if there is a real advantage one way or another/ A lot of things can kill a lamp

[PaulErik]

T5 HO lamps built to current commercial standards/specifications have a Cold Spot/Cold Foot located at the labeled end of the tube. Not all T5 HO lamps in the aquarium industry have them.

You can usually see if a T5 lamp has a cold spot. The lamp when lit will have a dark area where little to no light is generated by the labeled end.

You can see the explanation and a picture of the cold spot in a T5 lamp without the phosphor coating in this thread: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1159820

[fijiblue]

I like your numbers fijiblue!

Thanks Sam!

Tried playing around with my height this weekend and wound up frying a few acro colonies . I think that I possibly could have too much light which is why I started this thread. I used to have my lights as low as they could go, but my corals looked like crap. I am thinking that most sps (and im using the term "most" loosely, mind you) under T5's should NOT exceed a PAR value of 350 for maximum coloration. I am noticing this on more and more corals that wont color up until I move them into the bottom quads of my tank pushing 300 micros. Just speculation right now, but if anyone else could put this theory to the test and let me know the results, I'd be much obliged

[bohlke]

Originally posted by The Grim Reefer
That purrrrdy. Great pic. Pretty serious color shift there.

Yeah I was amazed by the color spectrum change since I didnt change the bulb types or layout.

[siwelk]

Originally posted by fijiblue
I run 3 ATI B+ / 2 ATI AB Specials / 1 UV Aquasun (ditched the procolor)



It is a 30 gallon. Here are some other pics if interested:

what are the dimensions of your 30g?? im currently building a 30g myself and ive been having a hard time finding other people with the same tank. i have a 30g (36"x12"x16"). do you have any more pics of your setup? also what kind of equipment are you using? do you have a build thread perhaps or a link to more information about your tank. im very interested in what youve got going here. TIA.


-Kyle