Blue chromis epidemic ?

[StonyPotstation]

A week or so ago my largest blue chromis began to hang in a corner away from the other four i keep, went slightly pale, and stopped eating. Since nothing else in my tank - the numerous other species (i will list later) coral, and invertabrete's all seem fine i thought maybe it was just old age, and the fish was just ready to kick over.

But after a week, it started to act asif it was incredibly hungry - and was trying to eat. The only way i could describe it's behavior is that it was blind. It would occasionally bump into the glass (only slowly) and would only eat food if it literally bumped it on the head. Since this was the first Marine fish i've kept that has ever been sick, i thought it was just old and dying, until about 2 days ago.

The smallest of my chromis has started to act exactly the same, and has stopped feeding, neither fish has died as of yet - but the largest one that was originally showing the symptoms is starting to get a sucked in stomach. So now i'm left with two sick chromis - with what appears to be the same problem. I still have three blue chromis and three lemon chromis that seem healthy. Which leads me to beleive its not my water quality or anything to do with the upkeep of my tank.

My tank is a 250L reef tank. I have numerous forms of coral, and anenomes. I keep invertabrates, and the fish cureently in the tank are the following... 3 coral gobies, 5 blue chromis, 3 yellow chromis, 3 clown fish (oscillaris), 1 bicolour blenny, 1 six line wrasse, 3 sand gobies.

The only test that was slightly out was my calcium which was slightly higher (500ppm) - but i never put any calcium additives in, thats just my local water.

Every week i add 5ml of Strontium, Iodine, MacroUp(iron and vitamins)

Please help me, i don't like the idea of disease spreading round my tank, if it is infact disease.

[SAT]

The eyes actually look OK, is that right? In that case the blindness is either caused by a systemic infection, nutritional deficiency, or some poison in the water.

Since this may be contageous, I suggest isolating any fish that start to show this symptom. The bad news is all the Chromis may already be exposed, with a long incubation period.

On the chance that it's a nutritional problem, what have you been feeding him? If it's all dry food or of freshwater origin or brine shrimp, try fresh or frozen and strictly marine origin. Also try soaking some food in Selcon if you can get it.

On the chance it's a toxin in the water (and yes, some fish will be affected before others), I suggest using some good quality activated carbon. I also suggest suspending your supplements except for elements you are testing for and know you're short. Too much strontium or iodine can be toxic, and you probably don't really need to supplement either one.

If you're using tap water, there's a possibility there's something bad in it. That's why I use a reverse osmosis filter.

Systemic infections usually aren't treatable. However, it doesn't hurt to try an antibiotic such as a double dose of nitrofurazone or maracyn-two -- in a treatment tank.

[StonyPotstation]

Thanks for the quick reply, though not the news i was hoping for...

The eye's are not foggy or glazed over at all. I have numerous starfish and inverts in my tank though - i was under the impression that if toxins wer ein the water these would be the first to go ?

Im currently feeding my fish with brine shrimp, blood worm and marine dinner, three times a day (im being very careful not to over feed) every month i give them a treat with a muscle or two, after cutting out the oil gland. and remove anything not eaten after about 36 hours.

I have been using tap water to refill my tank for about 9months - and i've had the chromis for about 7 of those 9. Could it really take that long for a disease to expose itself ?

The chances of me catching them are next to zero without removing all my live rock, and i think the stress would more likely kill them anyway.

I will mention all these potential problems to an experienced friend of mine who can acctually look at my tank and tell me which of those it could more likely be, as most of the treatments your suggesting i have no experience at all with - so obviously im very tentative about using them.

The other factor i feel that is worth mentioning is that my coral is acctually growing, and spreading to other rocks in my tank, especially the soft corals - wouldn't that indicate a healthy tank?

Thankyou againfor your help and insight into the matter - it is greatly appreciated.

[SAT]

From what you're describing about the inverts, the tank does sound healthy.

The food sounds good, although I think mysis shrimp is a better staple than brine shrimp. Chromis have small stomachs, so the key with Chromis is frequency. 3X daily should be adequate, but more is better (they really want to be fed like Anthias, meaning a little bit all the time). I assume they are all getting some, right? Sometimes being very careful not to overfeed means you're underfeeding.

Chromis will often establish a pecking order which results in the weakest fish being picked on by all the others. That yields a high stress level and less food intake. It's actually not uncommon for a community of Chromis to die one by one as a result of this, smallest fish first. I didn't suggest this initially because your first casualty is one of the larger fish and blindness isn't an obvious symptom, but it's possible you're dealing with multiple causes.

Back to the disease hypothesis, yes it's possible for some systemic diseases to have very long gestation periods. So, they may have been already sick. They may also be transmitting the disease between them.

There's no treatment I can recommend other that maybe soaking some food in garlic (for intestinal parasites and to stimulate the appetite) that you can safely use in your display tank. If you remove the fish to a treatment tank there are other options, but lacking a good diagnosis they will be shots in the dark. The strongest argument for removing them is to prevent any further transmission of the disease.

[SAT]

BTW, you might try sending ATJ a note. He knows at least as much about fish disease as anyone else on this board, and he lives in Sydney.

[StonyPotstation]

Thankyou for all your help, I will get onto it ASAP, I had my 3rd chromis go down sick today, (its so sudden - the morning feed he was fine, the afternoon feed he was uninterested)

I am quite certain their feeding is fine, as all the fish get their fair share - and my chromis are the guts of the tank.

I guess the only safe assumption to make is that it is disease so i will try and remove them.

I've been waiting for them to pass naturally anyway as there's a few fish i've been wanting to buy, but been hesitant because of the over stocking factor... So losing my chromis isn't my largest concern, but the threat of the disease spreading is in the back of my head. If this was definatly systemic disease are my other fish in danger. No one but my blue chromis are falling ill. Although now that my 3rd is acting sick i'm almost certain its disease.

Assuming that it is a disease - will it stay in the water ? (im no longer going to refill with tap water - but ill buy premixed from my local marine aquarium store)

I guess what im saying is - worst case scenario, if all my fish are infect and die - will I be able to add new fish later down the track, or will i have to start the tank up all over again incase of re-contamination ?

[SAT]

Unfortunately, with no good diagnosis it's impossible to say whether the problem is confined to the Chromis or whether it will persist in the absence of fish. There are some diseases that are specific to particular species or genera of fish. There are some that can't reproduce in aquaria at all, so would only affect fish that were exposed in the wild. Most are obligate parasites, implying that they will die out in the absence of a suitable host, but there are counter examples.

My best advice at the moment is to isolate any fish that appears to be ill and don't buy anything new until the situation seems to be stable. If all the fish die, a month with no fish in the tank will give you a high probabilty that any diseases are gone.

[StonyPotstation]

Ok, again thanks for all your time and help - ill be taking the fish out asap.

[Bozad]

I have been having a simular problem with a PinK Tail Trigger. I was not aware that Strontium and Iodine could be toxic. I regularly use both along with Iron. Should I stop adding these?

[SAT]

Originally posted by Bozad
I have been having a simular problem with a PinK Tail Trigger. I was not aware that Strontium and Iodine could be toxic. I regularly use both along with Iron. Should I stop adding these?

My rule is you don't want to add trace elements unless you are testing for them and making sure they're within safe bounds. There's no good evidence that either strontium or iodine supplements are required for a healthy tank. Strontium is particularly controversial since a lot of the evidence supporting its use can also be interpreted as indicating it's toxic (the coral uses it because it needs it vs. the coral secreted it because it's toxic and needed to get rid of it). Most marine-origin foods contain lots of iodine, so unless you're not feeding the fish you probably have plenty of it in the tank.

Iron is relatively safe because it won't stay in solution in saltwater at toxic levels. However, unless you are growing turtle grass, or something else that needs it, chances are it's not doing you any good.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

Whether this has anything to do with your trigger, BTW, I couldn't say. It takes a lot of excess strontium or iodine to affect fish. Chances are it's something else.

[StonyPotstation]

Just a quick update

i've taken 4 of my 5 chromis out of the tank. the 1 remaining in the tank is in perfect health, whilst one of the four taken out has died (its worth noteing that the chromis that died was the 2nd LAST to contract the disease)

The other three are still sick despite my treatments of triple sulfur. The marine expert at my local retailer thought it most sounded liek a problem with their lateral line. One of the strange things i can do in my hospital tank is the following...

One particular chromis swims rapidly in circles. If i put an object infront of the path its swiming, it will continue to crash right into it with no hesitation.

All three remaining chromis are not eating, two sit still and one as mentioned circles the hospital tank endlesly. Something is definatly driving them mental.

On a good note, its been a week and no other fish in my tank seem effected.

[Bozad]

My pink tail is also swimming in circles and twisting around. My wife videoed it last night. I found that if I interupt its path, it will stop and go back to a normal swim path. However it seem to stay diectly under the pump return. I wish I knew what causes it to start the weird pattern.

[SAT]

Originally posted by Bozad
My pink tail is also swimming in circles and twisting around. My wife videoed it last night. I found that if I interupt its path, it will stop and go back to a normal swim path. However it seem to stay diectly under the pump return. I wish I knew what causes it to start the weird pattern.

Staying under the pump return can be an indication of problems with lack of oxygen... the fish is trying to increase the water flow over the gills. That is often a symptom of parasites on the gills, such as marine velvet or Brooklynella. It can also indicate a water quality problem, such as ammonia, some toxin in the water, or just not enough air exchange.

I'd start with a large water change and some activated carbon. If the fish doesn't return to normal, I'd be looking for parasites.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...hdiseases.html

[SAT]

Originally posted by StonyPotstation
Just a quick update

Thanks for the update.

Looks like you're doing what's reasonable. Good luck with them.

[Bozad]

I have the trigger in a 20 QT. I have started meds yesterday. Should I use carbon and stop the meds?