Ammonia straight to Nitrogen Gas

[TomBarry]

How big of a problem do most people tend to have with Ammonia and nitrate buildups in their tanks? I am new to the hobby, and curious to know as much as possible. So far, I am using 'The Conscientious Aquarist' by Robert M. Fenner as my guide.

For at least 6 weeks, probably closer to 8-10 weeks, I used saltwater-adapted tilapia as starter fish in my tank. I recorded ammonia, and nitrate levels every day, and nitrate was consistently below 20ppm. Everything seemed stable, so I figured it was time to get the starter tilapia out and start moving on to bigger and better things. I was using gravel on the bottom of the tank, but I decided that I would enjoy the look of live sand better on the bottom of the tank. I removed the gravel and added the sand. I measured the nitrate levels after the sand settled, and it was once again below 20. In my haste, I added some chromis and a clownfish to the tank. The next day, nitrate had spiked to over 50ppm. I did almost a half a tank water change (58g tank), but nitrate levels did not go down for 2 days. I lost 3 chromis to the bad water conditions. Any idea why this might have happened? I have a UV light, and there should easily have been enough bacteria build up to do better biofiltration of the nitrate levels. Also, I had 3 pretty big chunks of live rock in the tank.

Also, my dad, a research scientist at UW-Madison, is working on developing a device that, in theory, could convert aqueous ammonia directly into nitrogen gas. This would help to eliminate nitrite and nitrate buildup in tanks. Would there be a market for a device like that? I know biofiltration and water changes keep tanks in stable condition, but maybe it would help a lot for fish-only systems? I find it kind of ironic that I ran into the exact problem he wants me to address on here. But anyway, any thoughts or comments are welcome.

[tydtran]

Let me try to address your questions:
1) the death of your fish could have been due to several different factors. If you did not properly acclimate them to your aquarium water, they could have died simply from that. Your nitrate level was high but within what is tolerable to properly acclimated fish. The second issue is you half a tank water change. This is usually not a good idea since you are radically altering your water chemistry. The rapid change in ph alone could have killed your fish. The real question is whether you actually do have adequate biofilter within your tank. You mention that you have a few pieces of rock in your aquarium. Empirically 1.5 to 2 lbs per gallon is what seems to work and you should try to get this level. Moreover, adequate biofilter means that your nitrates should have gone to zero before you added fish. If you didn't see this drop, your aquarium was not ready for the fish to be added. You mention that you have a UV light over your aquarium. I hope you mean a fluorescent light. UV irradiation of your aquarium will certainly kill the bacteria you are relying on for you biofilter.

2)My overall impression is that you are rushing things. I saw in another post that you had added an anemone. This is a bad situation if you are still dealing with nitrate issues. Anemones should only go into established, stable aquarium. Unlike fish, anemones do not tolerate high nitrates well. Moveover, if you are having difficulty keeping chromis alive, you defintely don't want to try an anemone.

3)My advice is go slow. Let your aquarium cycle and make sure that ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are all 0 before you add anything. When you do start adding, go slow. One fish at a time, check to see how it is doing before adding more. Also remember the importance of quarantine to prevent addition of disease and pests to your aquarium.

4)A device that can Oxidize ammonia to nitrogen would be of interest. Obviously, the critical issue is going to be cost effectiveness. I would be interested in hearing more about how this might work. Usually, the oxidation of ammonia requires pretty extreme conditions ( like say 1000F of temperature and a catalyst), so I would love to hear what process can accoplish this under aquarium conditions.

5)Remember that what is at stake in your aquarium is the lives of creatures that didn't ask to be put there. Go slow, be patient, research the animals you want to keep and avoid needless deaths.

Post some more information about your system and many people here will be more than glad to give advice.

[tydtran]

Welcome to the community of marine aquarists.

[billsreef]

Nitrates at a mere 50 ppm are not toxic to fish, so that's not what killed the chromis. More likely an ammonia spike or the fish had a problems when you brought them.

[aurora]

I'm pretty sure a device that converts ammonia directly to nitrogen gas is gonna not be useful in a reef tank. The liverocks and bacteria in our tank converts any ammonia very quickly to nitrite then nitrate. A reef with any dectectable ammonia level would be a dead reef. Now if the same device can convert on a large scale very low level of nitrate to nitrogen gas....that's a different story.

[Saltcreep1]

Originally posted by aurora
I'm pretty sure a device that converts ammonia directly to nitrogen gas is gonna not be useful in a reef tank. The liverocks and bacteria in our tank converts any ammonia very quickly to nitrite then nitrate. A reef with any dectectable ammonia level would be a dead reef. Now if the same device can convert on a large scale very low level of nitrate to nitrogen gas....that's a different story.

Um....so nitrites and nitrates are a good thing?

I think such a device would be VERY useful.....but I'm doubtful the device would be within reach of the average joe.

Concerning the original question...... let me get this straight......he cycled the tank with a Tilapia.........THEN replaced ALL the substrate and added fish?


Seems like a fishy death sentance to me.

[adambaron]

I think everyone here is correct. You are going a bit too fast and trying to do too much at once. When I first got into this hobby with a fw tank I too added too many fish and did too much at once to the tank and I paid for it. What I have learned and aplied when setting up my sw tank is that everything takes time and patience in the key. Good Luck!

[theredben]

aurora - i think the point is that if the ammonia is immediatly turned into nitrogen gas then it would skip the nitrite and nitrate step altogether.

tydtran - i think he meant that he was using UV sterilization not as a light source.

[aurora]

And my point is...if there is any detectable ammonia that needs removing or converting to nitrogen is present, my fish and corals will be dead anyway. Therefore, if I have any ammonia that needs to be removed, It's too late for a cure. Since most reef runs at a PH of 8, ammonia is 100 to 1000X more toxic at this pH then at freshwater pH or 7 or less. The reason that a healthy reef system can survive is because any ammonia released is IMMEDIATELY converted by the bacteria in the water and liverock. This is the same reason that we go through the cycling process to allow for the adequate build up of bacteria to handle this process.

Theredben....I think you skipped reefkeeping 101 in your thought process.

[ACBlinky]

Hi Tom, welcome to the hobby!

It does sound like you're going too fast. There's a very true saying in this hobby - only bad things happen fast. Reef tanks like stability, and stability takes time.

Removing all your substrate likely removed a huge portion of nitrifying bacteria, and may have stirred up some nasty stuff as well. Disturbing the tank that much and then adding fuel to the fire by placing more fish in the tank knocked things off-kilter. My suggestion is to just let the tank settle at this point - don't add anything (except top-off water), and don't remove anything (unless you're doing a water change, and unless it's an emergency don't change more than 15% or so).

One thing I do want to stress is the need for a quarantine tank. I learned the hard way, as many other people did, that it's not really optional if you want a healthy reef. ALL new fish, corals, rock - anything wet - should be quarantined. It's the only way to prevent pests, parasites and disease from entering your display. It also gives fish a chance to rest without being harassed by established tankmates, get used to your lighting schedule and the foods you offer, and generally recover from the ordeal of being caught, shipped, kept at a wholesaler's, shipped, kept at the LFS, and then shipped to your home - all usually within two weeks or so.

You might want to visit the New To The Hobby forum, there are loads of helpful members there who can answer any questions and help if you have any problems