Am I overstocked?

Jason1520 · #1 12/24/2007, 08:06 AM

I continually read about postings on here when people ask if they are overstocked. I never really think so, but others akways say they are. I know there are different lines of thought, but it made me think about what kind of reactions my tank would get...

I have:

(1) V. Lion, about 3-4" long
(1) Coral Beauty, about 3" inches long
(2) Blue Damsels, one is 1", the other is 2"
(2) Engineer Goby's, one is 4", the other is 6"
(1) checkered Butterfly, about 3"
(1) porc puffer, about 3"
and one cleaner shrimp, and one choc chip star

all of this is in a 75g, with about 100lbs of live rock. I have a penguine 350 filter and an octopus HOB100 skimmer.

I feed ever day, silver side and krill pieces and pellets.

I would love some feed back, Thanks

ejrabekoff · #2 12/24/2007, 09:36 AM

You are fine, although I do worry about keeping the lionfish with the damsels. Once it grows, which it will soon, they will find a way into his mouth. I am also concerned about having th puffer with the invertabrates.

Jason1520 · #3 12/24/2007, 04:04 PM

First, I agree about the damsels. They were actually the first fish I bought, and do not want to take all of the rock out to get them out. The smaller one's days are numbered.

Second...I heard that puffers like inverts, but i also heard that they will not bother them. Since I heard both sides, I gave it a try. He has not even glanced at the shrimp or the star. I did loose about 3 hermits, but they could be in the rocks. Right when I think they are gone I see one.

thanks for the imput

mattsilvester · #4 12/24/2007, 05:40 PM

I do not think you are overstocked now, but if all your fish were to live and grow to their potential sizes (even "captive" max. sizes) then you would be, in my opinion.

Here is how I see things panning out..... the lion will either grow quickly or die quickly.... the former if he is fed properly, the latter if he is not. As he grows, you might notice som of your fish "go missing".... first the damsels, then the gobies, then the coral beauty. Meanwhile, the puffer is going to get very big very quickly also - mainly by stealling all the lions food..... he'll be on the look out for the smaller fish also, and may also take a fancy to your lionfish's fins....

All this eating and growing is going to make water quality hard to manage, which sooner or later will be the demise of the butterfly.

Finally, you will be left with a 12"+ lion and an 8"+ puffer, both of which are far too big for a 75 gal tank, and will quickly pollute the tank, which probabl result in a rapid shortening of their lifespan.....

That is how I see your tank developing ..... sorry to be so negative about the whole thing, but honestly I find it hard to be optimistic. It would seem you really care about your fish etc., so hopefully it will work out for you, but I honestly do not see how it will.......

HTH (just my opinion, as requested).

Jason1520 · #5 12/27/2007, 03:29 AM

well....i wish I posted this earlier! The butterfly is dead. I did not see this coming. The butterfly was eating well, and behaving normal. The last time I checked the water quality was about 1 to 1 1/2 months ago, and it was fine.

I guess you were right mattsilvester. I am expecting the damels to disappear, which leaves me the coral beauty with the lion and the puffer, as well as the engineer gobys. The gobys are long, and hide until eating time. at eating time the lion is not paying attention to them anyhow, so I think they will be ok.

my next question is: Can the lion, puffer, and coral beauty co-exist in a 75g?

mattsilvester · #6 12/27/2007, 05:48 AM

coral beauty yes - lion no - puffer no......

The very minimum for the puffer OR the lion is a 4x2x2 tank, and even at that it would be much too small, but they would "subsist" in that......

To co-exist, you would need something like a 6x2x2 tank......

At some stage, the lion will get the coral beauty and the gobies.... they are dusk / dawn predators, and will catch them off gaurd either before the tank lights come on or shortly after...... and you'll never know it happened......

Trust me, you do not have the correct set up for these fish, and at this stage the only advice I would give you is to stop taking advice from whomever advised you to put these fish in a 75 gal tank..........

Your choices at this stage are easy really......
Either:
(1) Get rid of the puffer and lion, while you still can, before they get too big, or die.
(2) Get a bigger tank - and please note that even in a big tank, these guys might not get on for long - you could have problems with the puffer nipping the lions fins etc.
(3) Just hold fast, hope for teh best, and watch the inevitable happen............

Again, I appologise for being so blunt and negative........ I hate being a prophet of doom........

HTh

Matt

mattsilvester · #7 12/27/2007, 05:54 AM

coral beauty yes - lion no - puffer no......

The very minimum for the puffer OR the lion is a 4x2x2 tank, and even at that it would be much too small, but they would "subsist" in that......

To co-exist, you would need something like a 6x2x2 tank......

At some stage, the lion will get the coral beauty and the gobies.... they are dusk / dawn predators, and will catch them off gaurd either before the tank lights come on or shortly after...... and you'll never know it happened......

Trust me, you do not have the correct set up for these fish, and at this stage the only advice I would give you is to stop taking advice from whomever advised you to put these fish in a 75 gal tank..........

Your choices at this stage are easy really......
Either:
(1) Get rid of the puffer and lion, while you still can, before they get too big, or die.
(2) Get a bigger tank - and please note that even in a big tank, these guys might not get on for long - you could have problems with the puffer nipping the lions fins etc.
(3) Just hold fast, hope for teh best, and watch the inevitable happen............

Again, I appologise for being so blunt and negative........ I hate being a prophet of doom........

HTh

Matt

joeyt66 · #8 12/27/2007, 08:38 AM

I too agree with matt on this. Its only a matter of time before the lion picks off those fish. He will eat whatever he can fit in his mouth. I know because this is what happened to me. I was informed a fire fish was way to quick for a lion to catch(he was gone day 1 ). These are very patient predators mine would sit upside down over a rock(if that makes sense)and wait for the damsels i had come out. He knew where they were and picked them off 1 by 1.
If you like lions and dont or cant upgrade, maybe a dwarf lion would be ok.
As for puffers i have had no experience. But always want one when i visit the LFS

Snapper66 · #9 12/27/2007, 06:43 PM

Your fine with the amount of Fish that Lion will Wolf down those Damsels.Is their agressive behaviour from your Fish? that could indicate to many Fish.

Jason1520 · #10 12/31/2007, 04:07 PM

After alot of thought, as well as advice from this thread and others I have the following thoughts: I love the Lion, but not enough to sacrafice the color/overall look of my tank. I REALLY like my V. Lion, but lets face it, he is NOT colorful, and does not swim aroud alot. I knew this going in, but at this point in my tank I want more color and more motion.

Therefore I have decided to take the Lion out. I will get some credit with a local fish store (Tropical Aquarium Brunswick Ohio) The owner is a friend and he has helped me alot along the way.

At least one of the damsels will also come out. going in eventually will be a foxface, clown, and flame angel. The puffer is still in question. He is small (for now). If he becomes a problem, I will re-evaluate.

Any questions comments on my moves/thoughts are welcome!

Thanks to those of you who gave your opinions, and don't worry silvester, I take criticism very well, you definitly helped!

LisaD · #11 12/31/2007, 04:36 PM

For a 75, I think a foxface may grow to be a little on the large side. I think they get about 8-10" as adults, and are pretty active. They are great fish. If you get one, I'd try to get a smaller one and see how it goes. I have a blue spotted rabbitfish (related to foxface) I am growing out in my 55. I'd say he is a fairly slow grower... Maybe foxface is the same.

The clown and flame angel are good choices, but watch for fighting between the angels. In a larger tank, added at the same time, I wouldn't worry as much. You might want to net and isolate the coral beauty when you acclimate the flame, maybe rearrange some rock. Be sure you have plenty of hiding spots.

Keep the puffer until he gets too big (he will, pretty soon), but if you still love puffers, consider replacing him later with sharpnose puffer (toby).

If you really like lions, you could consider a fuzzy dwarf for your tank.

BTW, engineer gobies are very cool fish, but they do get good sized as adults. The gobies alone will take up a bit of bioload as adults.

In addition to your skimmer, you may want to invest in a decent HOB refugium to deal with the bioload (nutrient export). I have a pretty heavily stocked 55, and a BakPak skimmer and Aquafuge refugium (filled w/ chaeto and lit 24/7) do a good job of keeping water quality good.

Jason1520 · #12 01/01/2008, 04:31 PM

Thanks LisaD, I never thought of the refugium. I will do some research and look into getting one.

I do really like the gobys. They do create substantial bioload, but take up little to no room, due to the fact that they are under rocks most of the time.

I have had a foxface before and he did grow slowly. He passed due to an ich infestation, prior to the skimmer. My water quality has been susbtantially better since the introduction of the skimmer. I think he should be ok. The foxface is the last of the three I want, so I will re-evaluate once I add a nice clown and flame angel.

I have thought about the flame angel getting picked on by the coral beauty. I am planning on rearranging the aquascape to confuse him during the introduction. I have plenty of rock as well as hiding spaces, the flame should have no problem hiding.

LisaD · #13 01/01/2008, 04:36 PM

Good luck! You may find yourself to be like many of us -- every tank starts to look too small. I have a 210 and now wish I had a bigger tank! Part of the art of successfully keeping saltwater aquariums is choosing the mix of fish that can thrive in the tank you provide for them. A lot of the fish I like get way too big for my original tanks (55, 44, 120) so I keep going larger...

Jason1520 · #14 01/02/2008, 10:49 AM

Yea, I agree. It has only been a little over one year now with my 75gal, and it is way too small. My favorite fish is the Naso Tang, who would get way too big for a 75gal. Especially with the fish I already have.

I am in an apt. now, but I plan on upgrading tanks when I move to a house. I am looking at a 225 gal. to upgrade into. That is a big jump, but I guess that is part of the hobby.