Dow flake substitute

[kinerson]

Hi

With MUCH effort I located a product called Kemira. It is a Calcium chloride flake 77-80%. Tetra bought the plant/company which is located in Finland. The Tetra sales rep told me is was there European tech grade which was equivalent to the U.S. Tetra tech grade.

I just mixed up a gallon and the color is a couple shades darker then the old DOW product, it almost appears a little dirty. The flake seemed clean and white but mixed in with RODI it took on a slightly dirty look.

Am I being overly concern? The ingredients on the bag says...
Calcium Chloride
Water
Sodium Chloride
Magnessium Chloride
Potassium Chloride

Does that seem typical? I'm a little nervous dosing something that may do harm.

Thanks very much for your thoughts,
Greg

[kinerson]

I just want to clarify that when I said it appears dirty I meant only in color. It's kanda tan color.
This is the link that takes you to Tetra's european tech grade Ca Chloride.

http://www.tetrachemicalseurope.com/...rade_Solid.aqf

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

At the moment, I do not know of any suitable substitutes. That one may be, but I cannot tell for sure. I usually wouldn't risk a product that actually lists other ingredients like that.

[Boomer]

Well, like DOW it does not list the heavy metals. As far as the color, that may be do to the iron. Here is a DOW sheet. It should be OK, at least it is not Road Grade. The best one as of now for sure is the Tetra Food grade.

DOW Flake
http://www.dow.com/PublishedLiteratu...romPage=GetDoc

[kinerson]

Unfortunatly I was told by Tetra that there food grade will not be available much longer. Infact, I'm pretty sure they have already stopped producing it. If that wasn't bad enough, the Tetra sales rep told me that if you can find some food grade, it is 10-20x's more expensive. I can't remember if he said 10 or 20x's, either way it's to much.
Heres a question... If you found a 50lb bag of the old Dow, how long can you keep/store it assuming your keep it air tight?

[2thdeekay]

Indefinately, I think.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, it will last forever. I've had Dowflake and MAG flake for years that I use. It gets hard, but still dissolves fine in water.

[steve the plumb]

so nows it hard or impossible to find any type of replacement for the two part.I have some left.50 pound bag of mag flake and about 10 to 15 pounds of dow but then after that I have none left.

[steve the plumb]

so nows it hard or impossible to find any type of replacement for the two part.I have some left.50 pound bag of mag flake and about 10 to 15 pounds of dow (calcium) but then after that I have none left.

[nhlives]

Any comments on what is sold here: http://www.twopartsolution.com.

Dow Food Grade Anhydrous pellets. Passes the extremely stringent FCC food codex for human consumption.

[grav]

Along the same lines of "how long does it last"....

I got 4 bags of Dow back in 2005, now I see they changed the formula in 2006 and that there were some concerns about something they nolonger were removing (borron???)

When I run out of 2005, will new stuff still be okay?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Along the same lines of "how long does it last"....

I got 4 bags of Dow back in 2005, now I see they changed the formula in 2006 and that there were some concerns about something they nolonger were removing (borron???)

When I run out of 2005, will new stuff still be okay?

Bromide. See this thread:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1271282

Boomer: what do you know about the bromide level in the Tetra product?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dow Food Grade Anhydrous pellets. Passes the extremely stringent FCC food codex for human consumption.

Food grade does not ensure suitability as food grade from Dow has the same bromide issue. They may have pre bromide stocks. I'd ask them.

[Boomer]

Randy

There are ~ zero Bromide (maybe 1-2 ppm) levels in the Tetra, as they use the Limestone Method. I called and talked to their head chemist months ago when this issue came up. Dow use to be 100 ppm after they extracted the Br- and as you know now they are or will be in the thousand's.

I agree that an occasional use my be no big deal but daily additions may be. But we then must also look at that the seasalts mixes and how much they will or may effected by their new levels of Br-. I'm sure many use DOW. The other issue to look at are those using ozone and dealing with a much greater production of hypobromus acid.

The Inland Study shows sea salt mixes in the 100's of ppm ( NSW ~65 ppm ) but it is my opinion there is something wrong with their testing. If their assay is correct we are already many times NSW.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, boomer. I agree that the Inland tests for bromide are likely skewed by some sort of systemic error on their part, but that';s hard to prove after the fact.

[Boomer]

I think we need someone to do some bromide tests and write and article to reslove this issue

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Great. You're retired, right? Thanks for offering.

[Boomer]

I should have figured that would be your comeback

[Reef55]

I emailed twopartsolution.com regarding bromide levels in the dow products. Here is their exact reply:

Mark,

We have been stockpiling calcium chloride with lot numbers predating the December 31, 2006 date on which Dow changed their manufacturing process. There has been a resurgence of a letter dating back to August of 2005 in which Dow first states its intent to change its manufacturing process that would result in an increase in bromide. However, Dow on December 15, 2005, sent out another letter entitled "Addendum to Letter of August 2005: Notification of Impurity Profile Change in Calcium Chloride Products". Item 1 from this letter states:

"The date for ending the bromide removal process, initially scheduled for December 31st of 2005, has changed to December 31, 2006.”

This letter has been linked to earlier, but buried in some of the same threads discussing the bromide issue that have posted the original August 05 letter.

We have been aware of this since starting our business and verified that all Dow we purchased had lot numbers starting with U. Lot numbers starting in U were manufactured in 2006. We have also been stockpiling as much 2006 Dow as possible in order to provide an uninterrupted supply of economical calcium chloride to our fellow reefers. This also allows us time to source an alternative source.

As a last note, we use our products in our own tanks. If we didn’t think a product was safe enough for our own use we wouldn’t sell it to others.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Andrew Duneman
Email: andrew@reefchili.com
Fax: 763.546.1720
www.twopartsolution.com

[Reef55]

Here is the original DOW message:

http://www.dow.com/calcium/news/August_2005.pdf

Here is the addendum:

http://www.dow.com/calcium/news/August_2005_add.pdf

[Boomer]

Here is the thread that started this Bromide issue.


Bromide OK
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1166963