Low calcium, normal alk

crocdoc · #1 02/26/2006, 12:30 AM

Hi all. New to this web site as of this evening so please excuse me if I goof something up. Have an Oceanic 55 plus reef tank for 2 years. Has 5 fish- 2 ocellaris, 2 orchid dottybacks, and 1 yellow tang. Also present are various snails, couple of hermits, 1 brittle star, multiple shrooms, toad stool, polyps, and some Halimeda. Ecosystem refuge and HOT Emperor filter. Prism skimmer currently, but will be changing to Turbofloater 1000 (which is in my closet). I have recently become lax in my care for the tank since starting a new job, so now playing catchup. S.G.-1.022 (gradually working p with water changes), pH-8.2, Nitrates-0, nitrites-0, phos-0, ammonia-0, Alk-9-10(diff 2 times), Calcium-160(!!!!). I suppliment weekly with iodine and use Kent super dKH in top off water. All water is deionized. Currently using Instant Ocean , but changing to Tropic Marin Pro Reef(what's your opinion?). The calcium level in new water is only 260 and Alk-9 with S.G. 1.025. What are your recommendations to increase calcium with out pushing Alk too high,or too low? I am assuming that the Halimeda is prob. my biggest consumer, but I am leaving it to help battle the hair algae that has taken over due to poor management. Please be kind.... Sorry so long.

mikenpam · #2 02/26/2006, 12:43 AM

Do you measure for iodine? I do not think that you need to suplement in most cases if you do regular water changes.

You could go with a two-part treatment to get your calcium level up and maintain alk levels. I have just begun using a kalkwasser drip to help keep my calcium levels up.

I used oceanic salt at first which had a higher calcium level than IO salt. I had to go to IO when the LFS I used went out of business and had to go to the two-part treatment to maintain calcium levels. I have heard great reviews on tropic marin salt and would use it if available here in Fairbanks but it would cost over $100 to have a 200 gal box shipped.

Aslo test your magnesium levels. My tank's magnesium level was a bit low and I have begun supplementing it. It is my understanding that a proper calcium level requires a proper magnesium level.

I hope this is helpful and good luck!

PatMayo · #3 02/26/2006, 12:44 AM

[welcome]

I would not dose iodine at all. You do not need to dose it. By the way how do you know how much to dose? See my point. There is no good way to test for it all. You will do more harm than good.

I would look at these links and spend some time in the chemistry forum. You will get educated quickly.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/rhf/index.php

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...l2004/chem.htm

This link has all good information.

The ole saying is if you can't test for it don't add it.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

and last

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=166836

Regards,

Pat

mg426 · #4 02/26/2006, 01:40 AM

I use IO myself. I usually find around 350 ppm ca, and around 10.8 alk in the mix @1.025. If you have been doing regular water changes it seems odd to find your ca @160 ppm but I geuss anything is possilble. Might not be a bad idea to double check your test results (ca) double checking should tell you if something weird is going on. Also a very good idea to ck your MG. as allready stated. i also would not dose anything that I cant test for. Reading up on the ca/alk balance never hurts either. best of luck

crocdoc · #5 02/26/2006, 01:46 AM

Thanks for the quick replies. I was always under the assumption that iodine gets used quicly so suppliments were generally recommended, esp. with soft corals, but the less supplimenting needed, the better. I do have B-ionic 2 part, but again was under the impression that it won't be helpful unless the calcium/alk was already balanced, where in my case they are not. Is this not true? I was considering using Kalkwasser slurry to increase my calcium (watching pH) and then , once balanced, try to go back to B-ionic. Does this make sense? I am currently waiting for my order to arrive with my magnesium test kit. I greatly appreciate your help.

mg426 · #6 02/26/2006, 02:07 AM

the less additives one puts into the system the better IMO. Regular water changes should keep these in order. With the exception of ca/alk Using two part ca/alk products are to maintain a properly balanced system. You can use just the ca part to reach say 400 ppm ca. then resume the two part regimen.

phljess · #7 02/26/2006, 02:08 AM

You do not want to increase your calcium too quickly, do it a little at a time until you get it into balance with your alk. Use the reef chemistry calculator to help you. It will show you how much you need to add of your cal supplement to get in balance with your alk. http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

mg426 · #8 02/26/2006, 02:31 AM

Agreed so slow. 25ppm a day should be cool.

crocdoc · #9 02/26/2006, 02:32 AM

I used the calcium calculator that you supplied,thanks. I just want to confirm something. According to the calculator, I would need to use 1140 ml of Part A of the C-Balance to increase my calcium from 160 to 350. It was recommended to only do 1/3 of the amt first then recheck the next day, etc. The max daily dose according to the company label is 1 ml/gallon/day divided into 2 doses, which is significantly less than the calculator dose. Help! Since my Alk is 9, i did not calculate for Part B. Would you agree?

mg426 · #10 02/26/2006, 02:52 AM

Mabe try the calculator with a desired value of 25 ppm above your current and see what it tells you. Might be alot closer to what the company recommends.

crocdoc · #11 02/26/2006, 03:05 AM

I plugged in the change of 25ppm of calcium which works out to 162 ml of Part A. Using 1/3 of this amt would go with company recommendations. What is the Balanced Alkalinity given afterward? I was given a value of -8.76 meq/L at 185ppm of calcium. What does that mean to my system? Thanks again.

mg426 · #12 02/26/2006, 03:16 AM

Not sure what that means at all. Have you tried the chemistry forum?? Randy is the resident chemistry wiz, and he for sure can get you the answers you are looking for. best of luck. Mabe try e-mailing the b ionic staff.

phljess · #13 02/26/2006, 10:50 PM

I think you should just continue adding calcium a small amount each day and keep an eye on your PH, make sure it does not swing too dramatically. Once your calcium starts to rise your alk will begin to fall because it will be able to be converted into calcium carbonate. Again just add the cal supplement each day in a small dose and check with Randy in the chemistry forum. Alk/Cal are difficult to keep in balance. I always had trouble until I started using a kalkreactor.

mg426 · #14 02/26/2006, 11:10 PM

Crocdoc saw your post in the chemistry forum. randy is the man around here about those sort of things. I would do what he suggests.

mmn_usn · #15 02/27/2006, 01:42 AM

I am having a similar problem... but reversed. Ok, yes I know not testing water parameters for as long as I did (18dec) may have led to this, but still would like to know what to do to fix this. I have a Ph of 7.8 ( has been this since the beginning), SG-1.025, KH-4, Ca-840, PO-0.1. Thanks for your help.

bertoni · #16 02/27/2006, 01:50 AM

I would doublecheck the calcium test kit. Have you tested any freshly mixed water?

I got 350 ml, assuming a water column of 40g. I would dose maybe 100ml, and measure the calcium after the B-Ionic is mixed into the tank. You don't want to dose any of the alkalinity part.

In general, this problem is pretty easy to solve. I've been through it, using B-Ionic, for that matter.

bertoni · #17 02/27/2006, 01:51 AM

Ooops, for mmn_usa, you could just dose the alkalinity part of B-Ionic, or dissolve some baking soda in water. That'll fix the alkalinity issue. The calculator will give the the appropriate dose.

mg426 · #18 02/27/2006, 01:55 AM

WOW. Looks like your alk way low and your ca is way high. You want to get your levels in the neighborhood of 400 ca and 10 dkh.
since your ca is way high I would be looking at your Mag levels to be on the safe side. 1300 is a good number to shoot for. Aprox 3 times your ca. looks like your are way out of balance. Might try mixing up a 30% water change and verify what the levels are going in. the low alk reading could very well be affecting your PH.
remeasure after a water change, but with your ca that high it may take a few of them before you get it right. best of luck

bertoni · #19 02/27/2006, 01:59 AM

Ooops, forgot to mention that the SuperBuffer dKH in the top-off water is probably the source of the imbalance. It will raise alkalinity but not calcium. I would discontinue dosing it.

mg426 · #20 02/27/2006, 02:17 AM

Bertoni. I am confused are we looking at the same thread?? i see ca 840 (high) and alk 4 dkh (low). just wondering???

bertoni · #21 02/27/2006, 02:18 AM

There are two people posting in this thread, which makes it confusing. Check the first post.

mg426 · #22 02/27/2006, 02:21 AM

Ok i was replying to mmn_usa.

crocdoc · #23 02/27/2006, 03:53 PM

Bertoni, I am assuming you were responding to my original thread of low Ca, norm Alk. Why did you assume a water column of 40 gallons? When I used the calculator for Part A of C- balance, the volume calculator for the tank size (WxDxH) came up to 65 gallons, though I used 60 gallons. Based off that, I got a dose of around 1400-1700ml Part A to increase Ca to 350 from 160. If I stop the superbuffer DKH, won't my alk decrease too much. It's already at 9. Even more confused now.

crocdoc · #24 02/27/2006, 03:57 PM

Oops. My original thread I stated B-ionic, but I have C-Balance by 2 little fishies. Sorry.

bertoni · #25 02/27/2006, 04:26 PM

C-Balance should be fine, and works the same way as B-Ionic.

The idea behind these two-part solutions is that by dosing equal volumes of both parts, the calcium and alkalinity stay in balance. By dosing the SuperBuffer-dKH, you're adding alkalinity, but not calcium. That's why calcium is depleted relative to alkalinity.

I based my volume calculation on a 55g tank, with some of the water replaced by live rock and sand. The calculator is expecting the volume of water only. Either way, I'd dose the Ca part of C-Balance, based on a tank volume of 40g, and probably divide by three. Some measurements before and after will let you know how the dosage worked.