Is this MH any good?

spleify · #1 10/19/2007, 07:31 PM

I found these at a LFS for $239.00. Are they any good? are they worth the money. They come with a 14K bulb and ballast. 250W
http://www.jbjlighting.com/sys_k1.html
I realize that it doesn't have the best reflector, but is that something I can modify?
Thanks
Spleify

TwistedTiger · #2 10/19/2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spleify
I found these at a LFS for $239.00. Are they any good? are they worth the money. They come with a 14K bulb and ballast.
I realize that it doesn't have the best reflector, but is that something I can modify?
Thanks
Spleify

What MH, did you forget the link?

spleify · #3 10/19/2007, 07:41 PM

Doh, sorry. And it's a 250W
http://www.jbjlighting.com/sys_k1.html

DarG · #4 10/19/2007, 08:30 PM

The reflector is, well, all but a waste. But the system looks fine if you can get some better reflectors. The only think is that you can get a good electronic ballast for around 100 bucks or a little over, a mogul socket for a few bucks and a bulb for anywhere from 10 bucks to 100 bucks (decent/good bulbs in the 50 - 70 dollar range). So, seems like maybe it's not that great of a deal seeing how they really arent giving you a reflector thats worthwhile and you would really need to replace it anyway.

Check Reef Exotics for good package deals or Hello Lights , or DIY Reef, Reef Geek .... all dot coms

Definitely check the clearance page at reefgeek.com they have some great deals there all the time on different things.

graveyardworm · #5 10/19/2007, 10:26 PM

Marine Depot kit similar price better ballast, reflector, and bulb combo

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquari...reflector.html

salty3 · #6 10/19/2007, 10:31 PM

You can build them with a good reflector from hello lights for 130.00 or buy it already built off of ebay for about 120.00

REEFY1 · #7 10/19/2007, 11:08 PM

get icecap ballast they run really cool....not hot !!! and are only about 129.00

Steve973 · #8 10/19/2007, 11:27 PM

Or, if you want maximum output, get a magnetic (m80) ballast. The Aqua Medic Ocean Light 250 has one of these, and it's a fully assembled plug and play pendant, but the reflector is not the best one out there:

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...uct~AQOL5.html

spleify · #9 10/20/2007, 12:57 AM

Oh my gosh there is so much I don't know about these lights. I really appreciate all the help. If any one can simplify things for me that would be great.
What is the best but yet still cost effective 250w 20K system. 20K is a good bulb choice, right? My LFS was 20K in one of his tanks and I really like the blue color, without using any other actinic supplements.
Thanks
Spleify

spleify · #10 10/20/2007, 12:59 AM

What are the pro's and con's with single ended bulbs and double ended bulbs?
Thanks Spleify

dhnguyen · #11 10/20/2007, 01:21 AM

Having used both DE and SE I can honestly say I like SE better. You'll have better bulb selection in SE and much better spread than DE. DE IMO makes the light too concentrated and lack the spread

jdieck · #12 10/20/2007, 01:23 AM

First is the Ballast: Magnetic vs Electronic.
In general Electronic is more expensive but can run any kind of bulb (probe or pulse) giving you more flexibility in choosing, run cooler and uses slightly less power. An electronic ballast will also adjust the voltage to the bulb as it ages to maintain a more constant light output ans extends the bublb life by adjusting the conditions to the specific bubl requirements
A magnetic ballast is cheaper but is designed of a specific type of bulb either Pules start or Probe Start so you need to chose either European or US technology.
My preference has always been for electronic ballasts and whitin electronic IMO IceCap is one of the best out there.

Bulbs: Double ended vs single ended: Double ended might give you more output, is smaller but require a more specialized ballast (HQI) most usually magnetic although some electronic ballasts like IceCap may drive some double ended bulbs well.
Double ended bulbs do not have hte outer layer of glass that protects against ultra violet radiation so they need to be installed using a UV protective glass shield in the fixture.
There are less options for double ended bubls that for single ended and the bulb sockets seem to fail rather often or break easily
Single ended have the outer layer protection so no shield is needed and can be installed on an open fixture although it is always recommended to protect them against splashes.
There are more options to choose from on single ended bulbs.
It has been my preference to use single ended bulbs.

Reflectors: There are a rather large selection up there but some of the most popular open style reflectors and with better performance for 250 watt level bulbs have been the spider reflector (which is double parabolic) and the Lumenarc mini reflector.
For enclosed hoods PFO have been my favorites performance wise.

From all the options presented here for a retrofit kit (that require wiring) the linked by Steve 973 on marine depot is a good option although the Option with the 20K Radium bulb does not excites me as the Radium Bulb is not very consistent and is short lived but you can get the same retro kit without the bulb from:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merch...y_Code=Icecapr
And for a bulb I will recommend the 12K ReefLux which will give you a better balance of white and blue at a higher PAR for a wider choice of corals to grow.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquari...ide_bulbs.html

spleify · #13 10/20/2007, 01:42 AM

jdieck, you are the man, I sure am glad you found this thread. Thanks you so much for the education on MH. I'm sure I have a lot more research to do, that's ok I am a researchaholic, so I enjoy it. I think I have a good idea for what i need. I will try and compile a list, and check back to see if it looks good to you all.
Thanks
Spleify

jdieck · #14 10/20/2007, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spleify
jdieck, you are the man, I sure am glad you found this thread. Thanks you so much for the education on MH. I'm sure I have a lot more research to do, that's ok I am a researchaholic, so I enjoy it. I think I have a good idea for what i need. I will try and compile a list, and check back to see if it looks good to you all.
Thanks
Spleify

As you were typing I was adding more info to my previous post, take a look

spleify · #15 10/20/2007, 02:04 AM

I don't know if you will be able to see this or not but it is my shopping cart at hello lights.
Basically it is a
250W 20K Coralvue
MH Parabolic Reflector Set w/ Mogul Base
ARO Electronic Ballast-250W
Powercord -Grounded
Is that an ok set up or should I change it up?
I also picked out a
250W HL Metal Halide Retrokfit Kit
Thanks
Spleify
http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp...AILS&Zip=80249

jdieck · #16 10/20/2007, 02:59 AM

For the price it seems OK. I have tried the Coral vue bulbs only in VHO and seemed good quality so I shall assume their MH will be OK. I have used ARO ballasts for smaller 175 MH bubls and seemed to work well.
The reflector is not as good as the spider or lumenarc but is a good compromise.
Are you going to use them for your 55 gal tank? If the tank is 48" long I would recommend two bulbs as each cover about 24" and if you have the space above for the reflector (14.5"x14.5"x6.5" tall) I think a better option would be the mini lumenarc retro kit:
http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp...OD&ProdID=1491

spleify · #17 10/20/2007, 03:11 AM

I am going to be building a 24" X 24" X 24" cube. I like all the options. I really like that last light you showed me.
Thanks
Spleify

jdieck · #18 10/20/2007, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spleify
I am going to be building a 24" X 24" X 24" cube. I like all the options. I really like that last light you showed me.
Thanks
Spleify

For a 24 cube the Lumenarc is Ideal but may be you want to get the larger version which is 19.5 x 19.5 x 8
http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp...OD&ProdID=1490

Here is a picture of my 29 g Q tank with a Lumenarc mini and 250 watt. It is hanged higher so it spreads the 29 wide tank and the only 18" depth but for a 24" depth and larger reflector will allow you hang it closer to the water surface as to get good high intensity at the same time of geting full coverage.

spleify · #19 10/20/2007, 09:46 AM

jdieck, thank you so much for all your help. I really like that last one you show.
Thanks again, spleify

jdieck · #20 10/20/2007, 10:12 AM

Something to note is that the reflectors (all) get very hot so if you enclose it in a canopy I will recomend enclosing the sides and use some kind of open top. I use eggcrate for an open top of my main tank where I have a 72" hood.

DarG · #21 10/20/2007, 10:23 AM

The ARO ballasts work great, the Lumenarc mini is a great reflector.

I dont agree on the some of the comments regarding Double ended bulbs in general. The 150 and 70 watt do have rather delicate contacts. The ceramic ring insulator can break if not installed in the socket correctly and carefully. 250 watt however use a different contact set which is far more durable.
The DE bulbs do not have a UV blocking outer envelope. Some have UV coating but they must be used in reflectors with glass shields. The advantage is that any water splash or salt spray does not get on the bulb, just the reflectors shield. No risk of breakage from splashing cold water on a hot bulb.

Also, the comment about inferior light spread I dont believe is accurate. Any bulb, DE or SE requires a good reflector to optimize the spread of light. The DE bulbs in a Lumenarc or Lumenmax reflector provides an excellent, uniform spread with relatively small hot spot.
Also, there is information that because of the smaller size and the shape of DE's that reflectors can be designed to better reflect the light from these bulbs compared to the SE's. I think with the availability of Lumenarc and Lumenmax reflectors for both bulb types, it's probably a wash as to which will provide better light spread but there is still a case being made for DE's over SE's.
The biggest disadvantage is that the glass shield used for DE reflectors does reduce some of the light. But as I showed not to long ago using the 250 watt bulbs that Sanjay Joshi tested ... SE and DE versions of the same manufacturers bulbs (same color temp.) were split almost equally as to which ones put out more light with the DE's being behind glass. There was a very slight edge to the SE bulbs when all was tallied up.

There has also been some info that DE bulbs in general have a longer usable lifespan but I am not sure if this has been definitively proven. As fas as selection, there may be more SE's than DE's but the selection of DE's is pretty darn good and improving. I think that DE was initially more of a European bulb and it too longer to catch on in the US. But it has a foothold now and is growing.

Obviously, my preference is for DE over SE but Im not wanting toi change your mind ...
your choice of SE bulb and reflector and ballast is excellent one. The biggest problem with SE bulbs is the fact that they are often placed in open ended reflectors like bat wings. Those reflectors dont make the most of the light because they cant reflect it all back, much light is lost. A closed reflector like the Lumenarc that you chose envelopes the bulb and reflects the light from all sides of the bulb except what is directly radiated downward from the bulb itself. You will have excellent results.

spleify · #22 10/20/2007, 10:32 AM

jdieck, ur awesone, thanks so much for all your help. I really appreciate it.
Keep you're eyes open over the next few months for a 24 x 24 x24 cube build thread.
Here are a couple of shots of my current tank:

spleify · #23 10/20/2007, 10:43 AM

Wow thanks DarG, that is excellent info, what is you're opinion on light choice?
One of my LFS has a tank set up with 20K bulbs, and I love the natural blue look, without having to have supplemental actinics.
What are the advantages or disadvantages of:
10K
14K
20K
Thanks again for all the help.
Spleify

jdieck · #24 10/20/2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spleify
Wow thanks DarG, that is excellent info, what is you're opinion on light choice?
One of my LFS has a tank set up with 20K bulbs, and I love the natural blue look, without having to have supplemental actinics.
What are the advantages or disadvantages of:
10K
14K
20K
Thanks again for all the help.
Spleify

In short, the lower the K the less blue and more yellow/red/green wavelenghts 10K is supposed to be the closest to sun light although variations in bulb and ballast combination, qulity and manufacturer can make for variations in PAR and coloration, some 10K are really white while others look more green/yellowish.
and it might be more suitable to simulate shallow waters.
20K has markedly high levels of blue light in the 420 nm and less red yellows and greens, it might be more suitable to simulate deep water
The 14 K is an atempt to get the godd of both worlds although unfortunately I have not found a good manufacturer for that K bulb in the 250 watt power range. I am now testing the new Ushio 15K 400 watts and seems a very good one although it still require actinic supplementation.

Finally in general the lower the Kelvin the higher the PAR (Photosithetic Radiation) and the higher the promotion of growth while the higher the Kelving the improved coloration.

IMO for display tanks were you do not really want super fast growth but you want better coloration I will go for more bluer light on the other hand 10 K will be suitable for growout and deep tanks were PAR and / or growth is most required.

DarG · #25 10/20/2007, 01:03 PM

If you want a blue look with good light output, I would start a thread asking for input on specific bulbs. Alot of the 20K bulbs do not have much par, not very bright. Like mentioned, a 14K is usually a compromise between color and par, but the listed color temperature (K - Kelvin) of the bulbs are more often inaccurate than accurate. There are 14K bulbs that actually measure over 20K and are very blue and others that measure closer to 10K or lower and are actually white, some even yellowish. A certian 10K rated bulb can be bluer than another 14K rated bulb. I dont know the SE bulbs that well so it's better to get opinions from the members here on specific bulbs attributes. Dont just ask about 20K's, ask about specifically what you are looking for ... color, price range, aquarium size/dimensions, the reflector you are using, what corals you have or want to have and make sure you mention that you will only have the one 250 watt halide, no flourescent supplements. The more specifics relevant to your aquarium, corals and equipment, the more informed answers you will get.