Important Phytoplankton Question re: fertilizer

[jjrock]

Hello guru's of the "Artificial Seaworld". I have been trying to find a specific answer to a question and cannot find any reference to this precisely (maybe I had do better searches?).

The "main" Phytoplankton thread is getting just a bit too cumbersome and I'm still not finsihed reading most of the links and posts .... yadda yadda ...

So ... my important question:

How much fertilizer should I use? Now, this may seem simple when you're buying you're fertilizer from a fish store with pre-prescribed doses etc .... but I'm using a shur-grow 20-20-20 plant food (which is a poweder that can be made into a solution).

I use 2 litre pop bottles, with aeration, and I'm starting with a nice frozen Phytoplankton culture that I bought from Big Al's (don't remember off hand the name .. not DT's thought ... but good neway).

So, if anyone can answer these questions specifically it would be immensely appreciated:

1. How much fertilizer should I put in?
(assume that I dilute x tbsp with y ml water)

2. How often should I add more?

3. How can I tell when there is not enough fert?

4. How can I tell if there is too much?

(NOTE: for questions 3 and 4 I would like to state that my
fertilizer, when made into a solution, is a sort of sickly looking pale green ... so when I add it to the already "so-so greenish" water it doesn't change the color so saying things like "add the fertilizer and it'll turn blue ... when the blue goes away ... add more ..." as I'm sure there must be a more scientific method for doing this?

Again, sorry if this has been covered, but for crying out loud that other post is unmanageable .....

Thanks an Oprah (Ton!).
JJ.

[Dman]

jjrock
Chances are, if you're starting out with a nice frozen phyto, you can leave the 20-20-20 for the lawn. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but if it's frozen, chances are it's dead. And if it's dead, then you can't culture it unless you have supernatural powers.
As an aside, I did try to culture live, but the room needed to be appropriated for more tanks.
Dman

[Atticus]

Hmmmm.... I hate to break this to you, but you are doing this in a manner that doesn't look like it will end as you hoped... Using a frozen inocullant while possible is not very feasable as you are using 99% dead matter to start a live culture. The other problem you are facing right away is improper fertilizer. The fertilizer you have could carry damaging chemicals that you do not want in your culture. My suggestion would be read the articles on Phytoplankton and get the proper starting elements from Florida Aqua Farms. Or, you can see if you can get a starter culture of live product off eBay. This will make things much easier on you in the long run and you will be much more successful. Another option is just buying frozen phyto concentrates from reed mariculture or big als and don't waste your time, money, and space culturing your own as many breeders have switched to frozen instant algae.

[Atticus]

DMan is just too fast...

[Dman]

I just noticed that you're a fellow Canadian, try getting in touch with Brian at www.reefcrew.com. He's speaking in Scotland right now but will be back before the end of the month. He can set you up with the stuff you need. Specifically live cultures and F2 fertilizer.
Dman

[jjrock]

Thanks a ton guys ... I feel like a fool, but the thing is when I bougth the phytoplankton I put it under a microscope and I could swear the stuff was moving (i.e. alive!).

Oh well you live you learn ... I'll contact Brian.

JJ.

[Atticus]

nanno is nonmotile so even if it was alive it would not move.

[jjrock]

Hmm ... Anythin that's "floating" in a liquid moves, but this is not what I was talking about. I was referring to some "internal processes" that seemed to be occurring at the time withing the cells (although my Microscope is rather "poverty" it does 1200 x). Maybe it was just me, but there definitely seemed to be both a "seething" motion (within the liquid iself) and the individual cells seemed to be alive (NOTE that I probably am wrong, but as I said it "seemed" to be alive).

The phyto was not solely nanno either ... I think there were 4 or 5 different varieties.

Thanks for the replies everybody ... I love these forums where you can just get information from anyone in the world nearly instantly .... hopefully I will soon have a culture going!

Thanks a ton!

[rsman]

its late for me and im about dead on my feed, but

there are other fertalizers besides guillerds you might look into them if your into mixing your own though dont use terestrial plant fertalizer, nano is small 3-6microns others are not, some 20microns have ?whip's? that allow them to move. you are best off getting a starter thats intended to be such, also trying to keep phyto going with multiple strains is hard at best.

[Phrogg]

(positioning myself at the chalkboard)...

If it looked like the insides were moving in a smaller strain of phyto, what your seeing is the cell moving in your depth of field. Phyto are spherical (or close enough) and the microscope only focuses on a particular distance from the lens.

So any motion by the cell towards or away from the lens will cause the focal point in the cell to move making it look like "stuff's"(<---scientific term) moving inside. This is much more likely than noticing the small movements within a nano-sized phyto cell.

Also anything that small suspended in a liquid will move in a fairly random "drunken walk" due to Brownian Motion.

That's the end of our physics lesson today boys and girls. have a great day

[jjrock]

Thanks Phrogg ... haven't heard the term "Brownian Motion" in years!

[Luis A M]

You really meant FROZEN?
Mix some dry brewers yeast and water and check it under the scope!

Originally posted by jjrock
Thanks Phrogg ... haven't heard the term "Brownian Motion" in years!

[Phrogg]

Originally posted by Luis A M
You really meant FROZEN?
Mix some dry brewers yeast and water and check it under the scope!

I'm not sure what you mean by FROZEN.

But, I'll guess.

I do know that some microscope lenses are designed intentionally "less than perfect" optically in order to open up a depth of field. This may allow you to see the entire cell in focus. The drawback to that is that you cannot see fine internal details as well because you can't effectively "cross section" the cell.

You will have the process I detailed on a very accurate or a poorly crafted microscope.

That's my guess, if I'm wrong, please let me know.



I also failed to allow for the possibility that the phyto cell was in fact "streaming". There are active processes in the phyto cell that you could notice if it were alive. My point about the depth of field and brownian motion is to say that motion does not mean life at that size.

[Luis A M]

Frozen-I mean algae kept in the freezer
They are rock hard and dead for all practical purposes.They will not move,if motile species,and they will not reproduce.

Originally posted by Phrogg
I'm not sure what you mean by FROZEN.

[jjrock]

Dman did you ever get hold of Brian? Please advise, as I would like to see about that starter culture.

JJ.

[Dman]

JJ,
Brian is still in Scotland. Back at the end of the week. Best bet is to shoot him off an email next monday.
Tell him I sent you.
Dman

[romunov]

Never mistake motion for action! - Ernest Hemingway


... just wanted to get that quote off my chest. Been saving it since 1999.