Hypo'ed display tank. Did I mess up?

prostaff · #1 05/22/2007, 12:59 AM

I wonder if I screwed up here. Please help
I noticed some ick on a new rabbitfish that I was keeping in a 55 gal tank. This tank is also tied into a 55 and 65 gal tank.These are all FOWLR systems. As more fish began to show syptoms I decided to hypo the entire system as I did to my 180 FOWLR system which worked like a charm about 2 months ago. I lowered the salinity to 12ppt using a refractometer over a period of 3 days. The fish are not really lookng any better yet.
I have been desperately reading all I can on RC here and now I am a bit worried that I may have made a mistake by treating the entire system. Every thread I have read has the owner removing the fish into a seperate qt tank
The worms started dying on the 3rd day and even though I expected this to happen I did not realize the extent of it. When I treated my 180 I did not have this much life dying. I tested for ammonia but that is still 0 as of now. Temp = 79, ph 8.3(baking soda assisted), I just did a 20% water change and I am quite worried because I can smell the death in the tanks. I have added a couple of pumps and some filter socks to the sump to try to get some of the floaters out. what more should I do? I have about 15 beautiful fish involved some of which I have had for over 3 years which is why I thought moving all of them to one qt tank would not be an option. PLEASE HELP

prostaff · #2 05/22/2007, 08:27 PM

Anyone????? The fish are not looking any better today. Not sure if I should do something drastic like move everything into a qt tank. Will that stress them more ???

ghostrida3 · #3 05/23/2007, 10:32 AM

wat filtriation method do u use?

ghostrida3 · #4 05/23/2007, 11:05 AM

if it was me i would get 2 clear rubbermaid bins, setup 2 sponge filters in them and move the fish into those and dose w/ copper. and leave the display tank running w/ out fish fr 6weeks. i wouldnt dose copper in the tank b/c it can kill the biological filtration in the tank.

N8ster · #5 05/23/2007, 07:31 PM

The biggest reason people don't hypo the display is that it will kill all invertebrates. Not sure what the impact would be on the bacterial life.

prostaff · #6 05/23/2007, 11:41 PM

I took out my cleaner shrimp and the one leather I had in there before the hypo treatment. All the worms are dead and the rock smells like crap. I lost 2 fish today. I decided to take out most of the rock and did a 50 % water change in the process. I guess I will wait and see what happens tmrw.
Still welcoming all suggestions

rrrrob · #7 05/24/2007, 10:50 AM

The new rabbit fish (key word NEW) was probably stressed due to the new environment. The ich probably would have gone away on its. But you mention other fish are exhibiting ich as well...have you noticed any aggression in the tank since the rabbit fish was added? Has anything been changed lately that might have affected the water quality--even pollutants such as household chemicals from recent spring cleaning? Even a nearby Plug-In air freshener could conceivably cause problems. Is ich showing in the tied-in tank NOT housing the rabbit fish? What about Nitrite levels?

prostaff · #8 05/24/2007, 11:46 PM

All the 3 tanks were technically "QT" tanks that have turned into near full blown reef since my big tank (their final destination) has been taking too long to set up. This is y I put the "new" fish there. The ick was spread across all three tanks. I discovered why the are not getting any better. The Ammonia and Nitrite test kit I was using were completely bad. On a hunch, I went out and bought some tests and OH MY GOD the ammonia was off the charts. I immediately did a 50% water change and now still in a panic as to what to do. I don't have another tank to transfer them to. I am going to do another 50% in the morn until I can find a tank somewhere

Freed · #9 05/25/2007, 04:37 AM

Why didn't you QT anything from the start? That way the ich would be killed and nonexistant before putting ANY fish into the main tank. Just isolating new fish from existing ones even if all the tanks are tied together does not a QT make. This will allow any disease to spread throughout your entire system. You need to remove ALL fish from entire system and do an actual QT with hypo(easiest) or copper.

rrrrob · #10 05/25/2007, 09:20 AM

Get the parameters corrected and it won't matter (lack of quarantining)--the ich will clear up on it's own, assuming it's not too far advanced. Ich is always a sign of stress--either agressive tank mates, water quality, temp...if these problems aren't present, the ich will disappear. Bring the salinity back up also!

I am probably missing something here, but it sounds like you tied in one of your systems that is still cycling? You need to understand what brought the amonia up in the first place....was it the hypo'ing that harmed the beneficial bacteria? Can you isolate the cycling tank from the rest and still have a biological filter that will take care of the established tanks?

Black Mammoth · #11 05/25/2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by N8ster
The biggest reason people don't hypo the display is that it will kill all invertebrates. Not sure what the impact would be on the bacterial life.

My understanding is that the bacteria will be fine. I believe that to be true since I "cooked" my live rock with fresh water. The container just had RO/DI, powerhead, and a heater...didn't have a skimmer to use so I did daily changes. Anyway, I went and put the rock in my tank and never went through a cycle. I did this to kill nuisance critters. Everything worked great except I still have this nuisance macro algae...ugh...I also have pods all over the place. Never used live sand or LR besides the stuff I cooked. Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.

kevin2000 · #12 05/25/2007, 10:27 AM

My 02

Remember that hypo doesn't kill ich on the fish .. it simply prevents ich from reproducing. Ich tend to stay on the fish for up to a week. When the ich naturally fall off of the fish they will not be able to produce more ich.

As others have stated .. people don't use hypo in their show tanks because it tends to kill many inverts and harm both live rock and live sand. Thats water over the dam and you now need to focus on maintaining water quality .... be prepared to do some water changes .. no big deal.

Here is a good link discussing ich .. note the diagram discussing life cycle.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/tr...marineich.html

Within the above link is an additional link discussing how to perform hypo.

Hope this helps.

Freed · #13 05/25/2007, 07:22 PM

rrrob, yes you are missing alot. I really think you should do more research on the subject.

Freed · #14 05/25/2007, 07:32 PM

Black mammoth, you do understand that "cooking" live rock doesn't involve using fresh water, right? You use freshly mixed salt water and change that frequently. You do know this right?

Black Mammoth · #15 05/25/2007, 09:31 PM

Yes freed...that's why I put it in quotes...thanks though

I should have been more specific. I did that so I could kill off any problem algaes, aptasia, etc. I'm very happy with the results.

BTW I used to live in Ft. Wayne...still have family up there.

prostaff · #16 05/25/2007, 11:55 PM

Sorry if I did not make myself clear at the start.
Freed...I am setting up a large tank and I had the wonderfull idea that I would collect all ther fish first and then put them all in at the same time to reduce the chances of aggression. Started with one qt tank and then that grew to 2 and now 3 tanks all tied in. Basically the tank is taking longer than expected to go up. Guess I should have set up the main tank FIRST before buying the fish for it and setting up the QT tanks.
I think if my test kit had worked the first day when I tested, I might have been able to save more fish. I kept on believing the fish were not as active due to the ich as opposed to an ammonia spike. I am currently still changing about 70gals out of 180 daily to try to keep the cycle to a minimum. Added some bacteria from another tank and some ammo-lock. lost 2 more fish today but a couple of them seem to be responding a little better today
Is there anything else I can do to help them survive the cycle?
BLACK MAMMOTH
Can you tell me if that was ALL of your rock that you took out at a time? I have some nuisance algae and Aiptasia that I would love to clean off before putting the rocks into the new large tank but I don't want to experience the same problem I am having now

Freed · #17 05/26/2007, 04:35 AM

Can you move the corals and live rock from your former QT tanks that you have tied in to the main system and then tranfer the fish to those and make them QT tanks again for a 6 week period? I know it would be alot of work if you can do it but that seems like the only logical way OR move all your live rock and corals to them and do hypo on the now fish only main tank?

rrrrob · #18 05/26/2007, 01:29 PM

Freed: 25 years research. You?

The fish will do fine if you get you parameters in line. All the dosing/hypoing in the world won't fix the problem that led to the disease.

Freed · #19 05/26/2007, 01:33 PM

Seems as though 25 years of your poor research has mislead you considerably.

rrrrob · #20 05/26/2007, 01:34 PM

hardly poor research--it's called experience.

Freed · #21 05/26/2007, 01:35 PM

Yeah, K, whatever. It's sad to see you are trying to mislead others as well.

rrrrob · #22 05/26/2007, 01:45 PM

Actually I am trying to help others who may make the same mistakes as I did when I followed all of this sterilization/copper/freshwater dip/hypoing insanity. I prefer a natural approach myself, and I have had a MUCH better experience in the years since I came to the conclusion that ich can be cured without all the chemicals or salinity changes. I used to FREAK OUT at the slightest hint of a white speck on any of my fish. AND I have had people here give me guilt trips for not coppering a sick fish (later found out it was a nutritional issue that, once corrected, the problem went away--this was with a coral beauty becoming discolored. Again, neither copper nor hypoing were the answer, but that's the first thing everyone here tells you to do when you come here with a problem).

But again, this is just MY philosophy, and yes, it's an unpopular one. Just giving another angle someone else may want to look at if they are frustrated with the solutions so many people here feel are gospel. To me, my approach seems SO logical, it's hard to believe I get such grief about it...

Freed · #23 05/26/2007, 01:50 PM

I would prefer to sway new comers and those asking to look toward the methods that are PROVEN and DOCUMENTED to kill ich before it even gets anywhere near the main display instead of trying to get them to try "what has worked for me" type methods.

rrrrob · #24 05/26/2007, 01:53 PM

It is proven and documented that ich is present in nature and the entire ocean isn't infested with sick/dying fish...no?

Also, it is documented that fish in polluted waters succumb to ich...it all comes back to water quality...

Freed · #25 05/26/2007, 01:56 PM

We are talking an entire main tank not an entire ocean. Two completely different things here. It is also proven that ich can be erradicated in a QT tank with hypo over a 4-6 week period.