Question for the parents of post-HS kids

[dinoman]

Should be a fairly simple straight forward question for the lounge parents of post high school kids - if you had senior pictures of your kid taken what did you pay for them? And if you want, also what did you receive from the photographer? (CD of pictures? Or prints? How many different pictures did you receive?)

I'm just doing a little bit of research, had a friend over last night to kinda look through some of the rodeo pictures I took this past summer and blah, blah, blah; and she did mention to me she might have a money making proposition for me. Another family that we both know well was wondering if perhaps I'd be interested in taking their son's senior pictures for them so I mentioned possibly. I've done senior pictures before but it was a few years ago, and while I did get paid a little bit it wasn't anything big because they weren't professional pictures (family was plenty satisfied though). I've advanced by leaps and bounds since then along with having MUCH MUCH MUCH better equipment, so if I do end up doing these pictures I'd like to do a professional quality job of course. I have a feeling of what I'd charge but I'm merely curious what it cost some of you to have senior pictures done.

Now I gotta get out and start refreshing myself on how to use my flash well, look through some shots to get ideas for poses and such, and do some walking around to stake out locations in case!

[2fishy]

Dino, that's a great idea! Good luck!

[BigSkyBart]

I think we paid about 5 bucks, so you shouldn't charge more than that

[emilye2]

I think 25$-50$ is fair. Give them a cd with the shots on there and let them print their own at wally world. I would think 50$ would get them the cd and a nice 8X10 print that you give them. I think for yearbook they can only be 4x6 or smaller so you may need to resize them on the cd for them.

[BigSkyBart]

of course I'm cheap, this is where we had the senior pics done

[der_wille_zur_macht]

[dc]

LOL, I'm wondering where these guys had theirs taken. Pictures are outrageous for cost.

[brward5]

If I recall correctly, we didn't pay a sitting fee for the pics to be taken - the city contracted a local company to take yearbook pics, and while you were there they would shoot 3 or 4 different changes of clothes. They made their money on the prints.

I think most pro studios retain full rights to all the images and only allow the customer to purchase prints from them - IMO, shoot for free or low-fee ($50-$100), retaining full rights to the images and make your money on the prints. Or, charge an hourly fee for what you think you're worth, provide a CD of all the images and transfer the rights - and a flat-rate fee for touch-ups.

If you provide prints, there's a machine that's used by high-end print shops that will make a negative of your digital image and then use that to expose photo paper for making enlargements. So enlarging prints is just like working with film. These prints are usually VERY good. Find a shop that uses one of these and have them make your prints.

[BigSkyBart]

Dino, a serious answer (for once, please don't die of shock)

call the local photog studio(s) that do the senior picture packages, ask them what is included & what the costs are
my suggestion would be to base your pricing for a similar package at about 65 to 75 % of full retail (you don't have the overhead they do)
that gives your friend a deal, puts some $$ in your pocket & builds the word of mouth thing (the best form of advertising)
good luck!

[Nina51]

i paid in fresh eggs.

[BrianD]

I agree with Bart. You need to know what the going rate is for your area. It really won't be relevant what someone pays in Podunk, Iowa or Big City, New York. You need to see what your market will bear.

I don't agree that you should discount your work. That will give the impression that your product is "inferior". Senior pictures are something people keep their entire life, and expect to pay for. It is alright to be competitive, but don't market yourself as a "cheap" alternative.

[BrianD]

Originally posted by Nina51
i paid in fresh eggs.

I wondered why you were squatting in the hen house.

[BigSkyBart]

Originally posted by BrianD
I agree with Bart. You need to know what the going rate is for your area. It really won't be relevant what someone pays in Podunk, Iowa or Big City, New York. You need to see what your market will bear.

I don't agree that you should discount your work. That will give the impression that your product is "inferior". Senior pictures are something people keep their entire life, and expect to pay for. It is alright to be competitive, but don't market yourself as a "cheap" alternative.

(quotable quote!)

Brian
my discount suggestion was not meant to imply inferior quality
it's fairly common practice for a new business (personal services related) to work a little less expensive that the "big dogs" for the reasons I mentioned, lower overhead, word of mouth advertising & doing a favor for a friend.
maybe my percentages were a little low, but my reasons were sound IMO

[dinoman]

Originally posted by dc
LOL, I'm wondering where these guys had theirs taken. Pictures are outrageous for cost.

Senior pictures are really expensive, even to me and I'm a photographer! Maybe its just because I'm not used to be paid in those amounts. For the bit of research I've done with the local prices figure AT LEAST $600+ for a fairly low end package by things are all said and done. And that's here! We're not exactly a big city here, nor have that kind of demographic. In fact that's why I did the ones before, they just couldn't afford the $400+ somebody who specializes in senior pictures was going to charge.

Originally posted by
brward5
If I recall correctly, we didn't pay a sitting fee for the pics to be taken - the city contracted a local company to take yearbook pics, and while you were there they would shoot 3 or 4 different changes of clothes. They made their money on the prints.

I think most pro studios retain full rights to all the images and only allow the customer to purchase prints from them - IMO, shoot for free or low-fee ($50-$100), retaining full rights to the images and make your money on the prints. Or, charge an hourly fee for what you think you're worth, provide a CD of all the images and transfer the rights - and a flat-rate fee for touch-ups.

If you provide prints, there's a machine that's used by high-end print shops that will make a negative of your digital image and then use that to expose photo paper for making enlargements. So enlarging prints is just like working with film. These prints are usually VERY good. Find a shop that uses one of these and have them make your prints.

That's interesting! How its done here is the school has a company to come in and take all the pictures - you have to get your picture taken for school ID and stuff and for the lower grades that is the picture that goes into the year book and the pictures the parents purchase. Its done free except for the prints - with the seniors though usually they get actual senior pictures taken and if you get them in before the deadline (usually right before Christmas vacation I believe) those are the pictures that go into the year book and everything.

Since I've had plenty of people asking about my OTHER prints I already have a print price list done up and a place I do everything through since its not exactly cost effective for me right now to consider a several thousand dollar printer. Session fee isn't something I've worked out yet though - I have a rough idea but I haven't started writing things down and working things out .

Originally posted by BigSkyBart
Dino, a serious answer (for once, please don't die of shock)

call the local photog studio(s) that do the senior picture packages, ask them what is included & what the costs are
my suggestion would be to base your pricing for a similar package at about 65 to 75 % of full retail (you don't have the overhead they do)
that gives your friend a deal, puts some $$ in your pocket & builds the word of mouth thing (the best form of advertising)
good luck!

You're not capable of a serious answer are you?!

Actually I've done a little bit something similar - haven't talked to any of the photographers specifically but have gotten reports from other people that have checked/had pictures taken and got a pretty good idea of the general range. The hard part is always determining how good I AM compared to them since obviously this isn't my specialty.

[BrianD]

Originally posted by BigSkyBart
(quotable quote!)

Brian
my discount suggestion was not meant to imply inferior quality
it's fairly common practice for a new business (personal services related) to work a little less expensive that the "big dogs" for the reasons I mentioned, lower overhead, word of mouth advertising & doing a favor for a friend.
maybe my percentages were a little low, but my reasons were sound IMO

I am more into value pricing. If the work is worth $600, it doesn't matter to me how much overhead the guy doing the work has. If he makes $400 or $200, as long as I am satisfied I received $600 in value, it really doesn't matter to me. I agree with using pricing as an incentive to have people use your service, but (again) you mustn't market yourself based on price alone. Actually, I don't think we really are in disagreement, we are just going at it from different directions.

[BigSkyBart]

Originally posted by BrianD
Actually, I don't think we really are in disagreement, we are just going at it from different directions.

agreed & good luck to Dino!

don't sell all the rights, we want to see some of your portrait work

[dinoman]

Originally posted by BrianD
I agree with Bart. You need to know what the going rate is for your area. It really won't be relevant what someone pays in Podunk, Iowa or Big City, New York. You need to see what your market will bear.

I don't agree that you should discount your work. That will give the impression that your product is "inferior". Senior pictures are something people keep their entire life, and expect to pay for. It is alright to be competitive, but don't market yourself as a "cheap" alternative.

I'm more curious than anything just wondering what other folks have been charged before - probably won't have much bearing on what I do finally decide as an quote for what I would charge but it is interesting for me to see what the range of prices in other places is too.

I probably won't discount my work as compared to the other local photographers - not really how I work and it is kinda looked down upon if you're trying to undercut the other guy. What I'll do is just like I made up my price list for getting prints done, have it completely independent of anybody else's prices. Be completely based upon how good I feel I am and what I feel my services/products are worth. It most likely will be a little cheaper than other photographers in the area but it'll be because that's how I've worked my price list out and what is a fair price for my own work. Not because I'm trying to discount next to the other guy.

[dinoman]

Originally posted by BigSkyBart
agreed & good luck to Dino!

don't sell all the rights, we want to see some of your portrait work

Most likely I'll do it so I just give them some form of printing rights while I retain most if not all rights to use them for myself too. I need to look into just how its done and get some of the paperwork ready and stuff.

[dinoman]

Oh, and who wants to come be a model for me to practice taking people pictures on?

[BigSkyBart]

I'll see if I can find the invoice(s) from the last senior pictures, it should have a breakdown for sitting fee, post processing (hourly fee I think) and print costs based on size & quantity
I think we spent a little over 400$,
print count was along the lines of:
48? wallets, 8 or 10 5x7's, 4 or 5 8X10's and 2 11X14's
fairly large extended family, had to make sure everyone got one

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Dino, FWIW your prices are pretty much inline with what things are in my area, too. Session fee of $200 - $300 minimum, usually with a requirement to buy a package of prints at the same time, for another few hundred. Photographer retains the proofs and rights to the images.

Personally, the only reason I'd purposefully undercut the market in your area would be if your practice isn't "up to par" with the competition. I'm guessing you don't have a dedicated portrait studio set up with a few grand invested in backdrops, continuous lighting, flashes, umbrellas, tripods, etc. Hence, you aren't going to be producing the same product that people with that equipment are. Of course it's arguable that you don't NEED all that to produce a good portrait, but IMHO that's the type of environment that people will expect when they're forking over several hundred for a senior portrait.

. . . or maybe I'm completely wrong and you do have a portrait studio in your basement!

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally posted by dinoman
Most likely I'll do it so I just give them some form of printing rights while I retain most if not all rights to use them for myself too. I need to look into just how its done and get some of the paperwork ready and stuff.

All of the photographers I know retain FULL rights to the images, meaning they don't allow customers to make any prints themselves. Of course, plenty of people probably just bring the images to wally world and make their own prints on one of those self-serve machines anyways. . .

[BigSkyBart]

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht

. . . or maybe I'm completely wrong and you do have a portrait studio in your basement!

who knows what dino has in his basement!

[BrianD]

Dino, what you might consider doing is contacting a few high school seniors and offer to take their portraits for no charge, in return for the ability to use them for promotional purposes.

[dinoman]

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht
. . . or maybe I'm completely wrong and you do have a portrait studio in your basement!

I WISH! Most if not all of these will be outdoor shots like the vast majority of senior pictures in this area are - I was talking to somebody else about this a while back and found it interesting. Here you RARELY see a senior picture taken in a studio setup, they're almost always taken outdoors.

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht
ll of the photographers I know retain FULL rights to the images, meaning they don't allow customers to make any prints themselves. Of course, plenty of people probably just bring the images to wally world and make their own prints on one of those self-serve machines anyways. . .

I've actually heard of photographers doing both - I've heard of them providing a CD more as a proof sample of the images than anything and then the people pick out the pictures they want and print through the photographer. While other's provide a disk with the full pictures for a fee that the people can take where ever to print from - the incentive for printing through the photographer though being that the photographer can create a much better print than the local Walmart kodak kiosk.