BAN Vortech, CL, Tunze, Surge only for large Tanks?

[crazzy]

Anyone used surge devices only on large Tanks {say 500 gallons +} with only sump etc? { ie: nothing else to move the water around inside the tank }
What with the soaring Euro the cost of Tunzes is going thru the roof, Vortech having customer service problems because of design issues { see - OK! Enough chat...Starting a 1000g+ Reef before the latest splt } along with the price of Electricity becoming more prohibitive impacting CL. What about only using Surge Tanks or some derivative thereof only? Anyone done this? How do you control multiple surge devices' wave becoming a Tsunami?

[Kent E]

I think banning is extreme. However, I plan on using 5 surges in the 1k as the only source of water movement.

[ycnibrc]

if you have the money to set up a 500 gal tank then power head and electricity should not be your concern. There will be no surge tank can give you precise flow like power head does. You can have a surge tank to replace a wavebox but the surge tank can not cover all area of your tank since your rock work will deflect some of the wave and there will be area that have no flow that when the power head will help you. You don't have to go with tunze and vortech. Maxijet mod and seio are the alternative.

[crazzy]

I was thinking alomg the lines of surge tanks[S] that were some how controlled such as maybe Tunze Turbelle's and wave boxes but not using Tunzes with wave boxes which IMO is a fantastic route but getting more and more expensive {yeah, I know, you get what you pay for, BUT? }

[crazzy]

quote: "I think banning is extreme. However, I plan on using 5 surges in the 1k as the only source of water movement."
How do you plan your water movements & control for your 5 surges? What size and location in what dimensioned Tank? What wave size do you plan on having?
Thanx

[yaktop]

I have three wireless vortecs and no issues. great product.

[spazz]

you can plumb a surge tak much like a closed loop is plumbed but you would want bigger plumbing so there is alot more flow from the surge tank than what you would get from a closed loop.

[crazzy]

Spazz:
Would that entail how many surge tanks, controlled releases how? so as to hit all spots of the Reef?

[Me No Nemo]

Hmmm, I have two Vortechs as well with no problems. Just wondering, have you tried them yourself or are you going on other posts? I thought they took care of all the issues.

[crazzy]

I have not had a Vortech, only Tunze, I have just now re-checked the post I referred to above and summarize that there may still be issues. This thread here was started to find out "IF" surge tanks only, have been utilized for larger tanks or have been "thought thru" in any way for the reasons I stated at the start of this thread. It is not and was not to be a slight on Vortech or Korellia or Maxijet mod and seio or Tunze.

[Me No Nemo]

Good to know...the way the subject line read, I thought there was some doomsday problem with the Vortechs that I didn't know about. The thread you referenced appears to be isolated to some operating conditions that he has going on. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything I should know.

[Kent E]

It's kinda a long thread and we go off topic a lot but here's the tank thread. Surges aren't setup yet but in about a month I'll let you know how it's going.

http://fingerlakesreef.com/forum/vie...=asc&start=440

[crazzy]

Great 1,000 gallon Tank build!! Can't wait to see her in action.
Thanx

[triggerfish1976]

Originally posted by spazz
you can plumb a surge tak much like a closed loop is plumbed but you would want bigger plumbing so there is alot more flow from the surge tank than what you would get from a closed loop.

Spazz,

I have followed your hosptial tank build and noted that you are using surges on that tank. Do you feel that the main tank needs to be over built to accomodate the additional stress that surge devices put on a tank as apposed to powerheads?
I bring this up because I was running three Tunze Waveboxes on my 600g tank built which is built out of 1" acrylic and could actually hear the tank flexing as the water rocked from end to end.

[crazzy]

Which, if any of these tanks has only Surge? How did you control the multiple surge tank surges? [ ie: so that two surges did not surge simultaneously}.

[spazz]

Originally posted by triggerfish1976
Spazz,

I have followed your hosptial tank build and noted that you are using surges on that tank. Do you feel that the main tank needs to be over built to accomodate the additional stress that surge devices put on a tank as apposed to powerheads?
I bring this up because I was running three Tunze Waveboxes on my 600g tank built which is built out of 1" acrylic and could actually hear the tank flexing as the water rocked from end to end.

there was many reason i over built the tank. first and formost was the 10 year warrantee i had to put on the tank. next was the 2 surge tanks would be pushing some major water around in there and i didnt want any flexing in the pannels.
the 3rd and final reason is safety for the children. some kids have accidents. we all have kids and there is a larger amount of children there. if by chance one of them accidently hit the tank with some form of metal object like an IV stand or something while the surge was going you dont want the impact to burst the tank. we had to look into everything and anything that would cause the tank to fail. then we built the tank so it is almost imposible to fail. nothing in this world is fool proof. but we had to give it our best shot. when we build the next tank there it will be built with the same perameters as this one. just hopefully alot bigger. lol

[spazz]

Originally posted by crazzy
Which, if any of these tanks has only Surge? How did you control the multiple surge tank surges? [ ie: so that two surges did not surge simultaneously}.

it can get complicated or you can make it really easy. if you design the overflow to accept alot more water than a normal overflow than you dont have to wory about when they fire. you can have 2-3 surge tanks firing all at different times to give you a totaly random flow. the surge tanks at st judes are tidal surges. they will run for 4 hrs in the morning and 4 hrs in the evening to simulate the tides in the ocean.
if you wanted to use just surgetanks for your flow then you would havet o get very creative. you would need multipal entry points in the tank to cover all the areas with flow. if you installed the entry points like a closed loop is installed than you would cover the tank completly. the problem is you would need such a large amount of water surging around in the tnak it would not be very cost affective and it might miss a few areas in the tnak that wouldnt recieve any flow. i dnot think you can use just surge tanks for your flow in the tank. you might need some small tunze streams for dead spots in the tank.

[crazzy]

Kent E
Are you planning supplemental flows in your Tank?
Very, Very interesting build, got Bud's to help too!

[jnarowe]

Another thought for you: You could build in wave boxes and use controllable powerheads to run them. Just imagine the Tunze wave box but larger and built into the tank in more than one location.

Hey Kent E, you got a thread on RC for the new build?

[triggerfish1976]

Jonathan,

Is there any DIY build threads regarding the waveboxes. I have seen them brought up on a few occasions.

[jnarowe]

check youtube for videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwIF1Mi-KyA

[Kent E]

jnarowe, I don't have one here. I wouldn't be able to keep up with it, have you seen your thread? It's nutty! 5 trillion posts at least.

BTW, you turned me on to the square skimmer and I'm loving it! thanks.

[jnarowe]

I got to see that man. where's the pics? vid? Have you seen my new airstone manifold?

[Mikigo]

triggerfish1976
I see that you have a wavebox on 1" acrylic. How do you mount the box? As I understand it, the magnets work only up to 3/4" thick.
Thanks

[triggerfish1976]

The 6200 magnet holds it in place just fine.