Getting Bangaii's that live?

[GregDoug]

This seems like an odd question perhaps but how can I add a group of bangaii cardinals to a tank without them killing each other? Over the years, I have tried to add cardinals to different tanks I have had but they always seem to kill each other. If a group is ordered from a LFS that uses captive bred sources like ORA, do the fish always get along since they are siblings?

[despot101]

They cannot be kept in more than a male and female pair.
(However, I believe some people have kept 2 males and 1 female in larger tanks.)

[GregDoug]

Perhaps a better question is then how do I find a pair? In my 280 I have 4 bangaii's but then again.... its a 280. I am looking to add a group (or a pair if thats all that will get along) into my 35.

[FMarini]

guys-
despot is right on the money, in our tanks banggai will not school, primarily becuz dominant males kill off the competition. In the wild its not so but our tanks are so small that for some reason we get lot of dominance. In fact about 6 yrs ago, I gave the local aquarium 25 of my banggai fry and they placed them into an 1100 gal display aquarium the tank is huge, after 3 months only 6 banggais were left, each banggai had staked out his space and allowed the female(s) to roam freely thru them.

[despot101]

From what I understand there is no really good way to sex them. I think there are small differences in jaw structure between males and females and maybe some small fin differences. If you do a search on them you should find better answers.

[Vert20]

I have gone thru many trying to find a pair. I tried looking for different traits to help determine if they were male or female. It came down to luck.

I tried groups of 3 (twice) in my 155 and both times ended with one survivor. I cannot say it was due to aggression, could have been disease. There were many reports while I was going thru this about intestinal and digestive problems with Bangaii.

[Atticus]

You may want to look into the other more docile species of cardinals as they can be kept in more than a pair. As far as sexing or pairing bangaii I like to use a 40 gallon tank with an established male. You can quickly figure out if the newcommer is male or female.

[robthorn]

I have a breeding pair of bangaii's I got lucky and got 2 females and 1 male and gave one female to my friend who kept getting males. I studied all the bangaii's available in the store and picked them apart until I found 3 that I thought looked alittle different. I luckily was successful. body shape is slightly different like different angle slopping in the head area. I still to this day see no difference in the fins. I never saw a jaw difference until after the first time the male carried eggs. it took almost a year of breeding for the male to carry the eggs full term and release live babies. At least I didn't watch close enough to know if he did. I have 3 babies left in largo florida but I am not sure of there sex since they are only 2 1/2 months old. the larger the bangaii the easier I find it to see a difference in body shape. Good luck hope this helps.

[Apon]

I got 4 to begin with 2 months, one was killed right away. I have noticed 2 have paired off, but I can't tell which one is male or female. The third one has been chased away and only comes out to eat, but they don't seem to be fighting with it? I have a 120 tank, and just yesterday I saw 3 babies in my overflow......not sure how to get them out. They are about 1 cm big? Do I have to feed them anything special? Don't know how long they have been there? Any thoughts?

[GregDoug]

Arnold,

Put some baby brine shrimp in the overflow every day. My baby loves the stuff. Congrats.

[robthorn]

I feed cyclop eeze after about 3-4 days. siphon the babies out this is the way I catch all my bangaii's.

[FMarini]

the only way to really sex these fish is to put in an unknown fish w/ a known male. Atticus mentions this technique and i wrote about it the 97 reefs.org article, make sure you use a small tank where you can scoop out the unknown fish.
Other than that the jawline idea i proposed in 96 didn't hold water and unless your male is brooding you really can't tell. Skip the jawline, bannerfin, anal pore, scales behind the eyes etc they all haven't worked.

[GregDoug]

I have read many methods and none have worked for me but I did see 4 bangaii's in a LFS last night and there was a clearly distinct bottom fins between them. The bottom fins (pectoral I think its called) at the bottom of the fin is sharply pointed on two of them and rounded on the other 2 in the tank. I was trying to find a distinction between the fish in general and that was the only clear difference.

[FMarini]

guys- there is no clear difference, no differences in fins, bannerfin (second dorsal) jawlines, anal pores, nothing.
This lack of sexual dimorphism has even been described in the scientific literature for these fish. So if you already have a male, place an unknown fish in his presence, (make sure you can get the new guy out if things don't work out.) the male will either beat the snot out of it=male, or start his dance(female)

[Apon]

Thanks for the input, I already use cyclopeeze, and I bought some frozen baby brine yesterday. I hope I can keep them alive : )

[robthorn]

I wouldn't even really bother with the baby brine in about 1 1/2 months they can eat san fransisco bay frozen brine. the cyclop seems to be very nutritious.