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  #101  
Old 07/18/2007, 01:29 AM
dandy7200 dandy7200 is offline
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Very nice work.
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  #102  
Old 07/19/2007, 11:31 AM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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Thanks everyone for the encouragement- this can be very overwhelming at times.

I'll have time to show everyone a nice photo of the Infinity tank and where I'm going to place it next week. I'll have some questions for everyone about the best plumbing (Stand alone or plumb it into my main tank).

My question today is - For the top of the stand I'm using 3/4" plywood and to screw it down I'm using 2" primeguard screws. I put them 10 inches apart do you think that is adequate?
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  #103  
Old 07/19/2007, 11:55 AM
token token is offline
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The only situation in which I would not plumb the Infinity tank to the main tank is if I were to use it as a quarantine tank, something I doubt I would contemplate due to its size and dimensions. If you think about plumbing it to the main tank, start that planning now, imo. Given its size, I would think that you would enjoy the added stability joining it to the "main" tank would offer, in addition to limiting your maintenance to only one system.

10" on center is fine. Some will go farther apart, up to 12", and others would go to 8". On horizontal surfaces, I prefer the closer spread and on vertical I cheat and go a bit farther apart.

ps... I would not change what I have done; that is going to leave holes which are worse.
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  #104  
Old 07/19/2007, 02:01 PM
erics3000 erics3000 is offline
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ditto on the screws..

I know what you mean about overwhelming. I started framing my tank room and had to leave town for a month. Gives me plenty of time to think about how much work I have left( AC, humidity, drywall, electrical, waterchage station, and on and on)..Just think how incredible both of your systems will be...

IMO I think it really deals with what you want to do with the tank. The extra volume always is a plus, so you could use the same sump if it is a frag tank. I think the tank is too sweet to have egg crate for frags. Maybe you can do something nice.

You can use it for predator fish ( Lion Fish and Angels). Or you can have a sweet seahorse and pipe fish tank. I keep my predator water seperate from my reef tank system. If i ever get ick or something it will only affect the system it is in and not both. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents. Hope it give you something else to think about.
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  #105  
Old 07/19/2007, 02:20 PM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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Hi Eric,
Oh it's very sweet and it's not going to be a frag tank with egg crates. I did think about moving my Seahorses to it but it's only 14" tall - about 1/2 what they require. What I saw at one of the LFS (Sea in the City) is a Zero Edge tank that just had small corals - no fish. It seems most fish jump that I like and I'm a little concerned about them flowing over. So, I thought it would be nice for a grow out tank. Like a frag tank but have rocks etc just like a normal tank.

Next week I'm going to be working on my plumbing layout. I have it written and designed but I've made some changes - need to revisit and see about this new tank.
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  #106  
Old 07/19/2007, 03:30 PM
erics3000 erics3000 is offline
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It is going to be one of sweetest frag tanks for sure. I am drolling about that tank.

Can you post some pics on your seahorse tank? I have heard a few people putting a certain species in there reef tanks. How do you feel about that? Will they get stressed out and die?
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  #107  
Old 07/19/2007, 03:41 PM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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I don't have the tank setup yet but I've done a lot of research prepping for the day. My understanding is that if you put them in with other more aggressive eaters they will not get enough. That's the main reason they normally are housed in a tank with very few others - or slower eaters. Also you have to protect them from stinging corals - they are not strong swimmers and kind of float around. So if you did put them in with others they would all have to be slow eaters (very slow - they mainly sit and wait for the food to come to them) and very low sting corals. I don't want to limit my selection that much so - separate tank. The height really matters because of their mating dance. I guess they need something like three times their length. Hope this helps.
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  #108  
Old 07/19/2007, 05:12 PM
erics3000 erics3000 is offline
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Great info thanks
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  #109  
Old 07/20/2007, 06:48 AM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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Token - thanks for the information and I just left the screws at 10 inches apart - using 2inch length primeguard. With the tanks weight it's not going anywhere.

The stand is now ready for Saturdays load to be placed on it! This is going to be great - finally the tank is going to be placed on the stand!

Yesterday I got the 3/4 inch plywood cut and placed on the stand and the 3/4 Styrofoam. I left the Styrofoam oversized and will cut it down after the tank has been placed. I also cut the holes for the overflows - I just hope I located them in the right place .

I did a little research on the Styrofoam and it's really different from the white stuff you see everywhere. Styrofoam (Which is blue and is a trademark name) is extruded polystyrene insulation and is a closed cell foam that resists moisture. It was used by the military in WWII because of its buoyancy and "unsinkability" - maybe that's the reason they have us put it under our tanks! The white stuff you find at Home Depot is not Styrofoam (I could only find it at Lowes here in Pinellas). From my understanding the white foam does not provide the insulating value, compressive strength or moisture resistance properties of Styrofoam. For us of course when we use it under our tanks, the compressive strength and moisture resistance properties is what we are after. OK - I'm done with that little tidbit.

Tomorrow I hope to have pictures with the tank on the stand!
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  #110  
Old 07/21/2007, 04:24 PM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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The tank is now on the STAND!!!!!!!!!!

Here are a few photos of the move:


The move - getting it turned around and then to the stand - about 10 seconds!


Up and over was the hard part, but was done within seconds. Sliding her in place was all it took from there.


We are talking perfectly level!


This is when the tears started to flow! It looks pretty sitting there !

THANK YOU - Everyone that showed up to help with the move. We had at least 10 movers and 4 supervisors - it was GREAT!
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  #111  
Old 07/21/2007, 04:34 PM
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A little update on how I added the board and foam. I used 3/4" plywood - sanded on one side. I added 4 coats of sealer (waited two hours between coats). After the last coat I put the 3/4 inch Styrofoam on and let the paint hold it in place - which it did a fabulous job. The tank did slide on the Styrofoam, so after everyone got it on the edge it just slide in place.
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  #112  
Old 07/21/2007, 04:38 PM
token token is offline
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Pretty darned wonderful!
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  #113  
Old 07/21/2007, 04:42 PM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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Thanks Token - what a load off my mind! Now I can start looking at the changes in the plumbing that's going to occur.
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  #114  
Old 07/21/2007, 04:50 PM
token token is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReefArtist
Thanks Token - what a load off my mind! Now I can start looking at the changes in the plumbing that's going to occur.
Post a diagram and I am sure the brilliant minds (and I mean that with sincerity and admiration) here can give it a good look. IMO, the more eyes that see it, and comment, the better the end result will be.

Now, with that said, the cutting and gluing is still yours to manage (with help I hope...)!
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  #115  
Old 07/21/2007, 04:54 PM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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Oh yeah - we always have fun at my house. Just getting everyone here at one time for twenty minutes was the tough part. Lots of gluing will be going on and of course their's the walls to be added - OK - lots to do!
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  #116  
Old 07/26/2007, 08:33 AM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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I have my plumbing changes added and my document updated. This is the top level so none of the ball valves, check valves etc are included. First I just wanted to make sure my basic design looks good, make any change now and then add all the connectors that will be required. please let me know what you think - and thank you!



I also have this file on my web site - the best as clarity is the PDF:
http://www.reefdiversity.com/images/280Plumbing/ - just select the file format you can best read.

Thank you!
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  #117  
Old 07/26/2007, 10:33 AM
token token is offline
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Very nice diagram!

My first question, after a quick glance, is: Are you running the volume of all your tanks through the sump with no additional flow for each individual tank? I do see that you are "t"-ing off to the 'fuge and grass/fuge tank prior to returning that volume to the displays via the sump.

My second question is: What skimmer are you using?

My third and last, for the moment, question is: What is the projected total system volume?
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  #118  
Old 07/26/2007, 10:59 AM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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All tanks will have additions flow - the main tank (280) will have Two Tunze Stream 6101 + 7095 MultiController and I'm looking at the Tunze Wavebox 6212. The wavebox is still a question as I don't want water on the floor. If needed I can also add a couple of Tunze 6025's. The other tanks will have either Tunze 6025's or 6045. I think that was your question.

The skimmer will be the new Sequence Skimmer, it's rated for 600+ but holds it's own against the RC500 and the RC1000. The one good thing is that it uses one pump and not three and the price is much better than the ER skimmers.

The projected total volume is around 550G.

Hope this answered a few of your questions.
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  #119  
Old 07/26/2007, 11:23 AM
token token is offline
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The only items that appear anomalous to me are the Media Reactors. It appears that they receive their water prior to Skimmer treatment and return it after skimmer treatment. I wonder if they might not better somewhere else in the loop. I am just not sure and await a more informed response from another.

At 550g total, one has either a lot of plumbing or a missing component. I don't see anything glaringly absent from the diagram. Since this is a one-story install, I can't foresee that much plumbing. My numbers point to a system volume of roughly 465g. 280g (Main) + 80g (add'l three displays) + 52g (two 'fuges) + 7g (skimmer) + 45g (sump) = 465g. Where I am going with this is that this could be tweaked a bit in terms of pumps and redundancy? A larger system pump might allow you to tweak flow out of the sump to the four displays via a manifold. This would seem more efficient in terms of both maintenance and electrical consumption.

I wonder, too, if a way might be found to feed the Ca Reactor without that additional pump.

Just my thoughts, and I await more accomplished system designers to chime in...

It looks great, if my comments don't indicate that.
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  #120  
Old 07/26/2007, 11:26 AM
token token is offline
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btw, thank you for the answers; I was concerned about flow in the main display but the Tunze address that concern. Did you consider a Closed Loop for main circulation?

I am always curious about the reasons different people decide on different circulation methods.
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  #121  
Old 07/26/2007, 11:49 AM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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I took a look at the total volume again and I came up with 519g. I then rounded the number up for the media containers, pipes etc for a 550 total. This of course this doesn't include the QT, ATO tank, or the freshwater guys . The file is a little hard to read, so some of the numbers might not show properly.

Main tank – 280
Sea Horse tank – 30
Infinity Tank – 30
Frag – 20
Sump – 90
Refuge – 40
Grasses – 29
============
Total volume - 519 rounded up to 550+ for media selections.
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  #122  
Old 07/26/2007, 11:58 AM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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The calcium reactor feed was one of my first questions as I wanted it to be gravity. I was told that for the stability of the unit it would be best for it to have a pump. If I added the wavemaker this really messes up the flow to the Ca Reactor if your are trying to rely on gravity alone.

Closed loop - I really like the freedom to move the pumps where needed. I'm going with a variety of corals and with that flow requirements - lots of low flow LPS and high flow SPS. If I don't like the look of the pumps I can just cover them with rocks (I make my own using clay). I can form the clay to any shape I like and have different rock shapes for different pumps. Bottom line - do I need more plumbing that a closed loop would require ?
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  #123  
Old 07/26/2007, 12:25 PM
token token is offline
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One of my favorite builds is by Sparkss. His tank is very similar to yours in size. He utilized a closed loop. His method is to move the water from one side of the tank to the other for six hours, then a period of mixed flow and then from the other side to the first side for six hours, finishing with a period of "calm" when neither side is operating, resulting in a tidal approximation that his corals relish, judged by growth. His lighting aids in that plan, with dawn to dusk effects and moonlighting on a natural cycle controlled by an ACIII, iirc. Randomness is controlled by a very nice DIY sinusoidal valve on a closed loop.

A couple of other tanks that mix SPS with LPS are Naka's and invicible589's (iirc). Both use closed loops to great effect.

I don't know if you have already acquired the Tunze's, or if you are absolutely set on them. As I plan my build, I have opted to minimize the in-tank presence of any power sources, due to the need to ground wherever they are present. This just seems to detract from the presentation that a large tank achieves.

I guess my point is that CL's can accomplish a lot very efficiently, electrically and in terms of maintenance. It's truly up to the reefkeeper to decide, from the get go, what is desirable and follow that path.

Just food for thought...

On another note, I see the calculation differences now; in your calc's, the sump and fuges are predicted to be full, I think. I took the volume numbers to indicate size, and then guesstimated the actual volume they would hold. For instance, I have a 100g sump but I plan to only fill it 40-50% to accomodate a power outage drain. Since mine is a two-story install, the pipes actually hold a good bit of water that needs to go somewhere....
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  #124  
Old 07/26/2007, 02:21 PM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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Yes - I've had closed loops on other systems of mine. The last one I had plumbed into the back and it worked great. Well I ran into the pipe (Not hard just nicked it) it cracked my glass from top to bottom! That is a concern also for me - more plumbing more possible leaks. I'm so tired of having water on the floor and that played into my selection also. At some time if I decided I can always change it and have a closed loop - At this time I have most of the parts and I might go with small closed loops on the Sea Horse tank. The infinity only uses it's own system - and you don't want any wires, pumps, connectors etc hanging anywhere in that tank.

All my tanks will have check valves added with unions built in. They will be changed out every year as part of my maintaince plan. This way I don't have to worry about flooding everything. My equipment will handle everything and no they will not be full but this will allow me to have them a little deeper than normal. We'll see how they work out but I know others that use them and they have worked great for them - but yes you do have to do the maintaince. One thing to note is that if they do stop working it will be in the open state and not closed - so this should not be a problem.

These are the ones I'm talking about:
http://www.customaquatic.com/custom...ndexid=pf-cv-tu
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  #125  
Old 07/26/2007, 02:23 PM
ReefArtist ReefArtist is offline
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Sorry the link didn't work - try this:
http://www.customaquatic.com/customa...dexid=pf-cv-tu
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