My new 600 gallon reef

[jnarowe]

maybe it's wasted breath because he's got more water volume in his house than all of us combined? Have you checked out the live cams on his web site? Looks to me like he probably knows what he is doing.

aggression happens all the time, not just because of stocking levels. In fact, some believe that highly stocked tanks diffuse aggression. I have been careful about my fish selection but more based on wanting to keep certain types of corals long-term, and many fish tend to look at the reef as a giant buffet. I still have 11 tangs in my tank and occassionally I see slight aggression, like between the "hippos", and there have been issues where I have had to pull a fish out a couple of times, but it happens in any size tank with any amount of stockig levels, unless you just have one fish.

My maroon clown is extremely aggressive with certain types of corals, the sand bed, a fairy wrasse, and a sebae clown. All the other fish she has no problem with and I have in fact seen the foxface cruise right through one of her GBTAs without even a blink of an eye from the maroon.

I have been careful but still have three similar body shaped wrasses in my tank, and they get along fine. Once in a while one might chase the other, but what the hell else do they have to do all day?

It all depends on the aquarimu keeper's goals. Some are more interested in the interaction of fish, some want to grow spectacular corals, and others enjoy symbiotic or species tanks.

I give Chuck high marks for his love of the hobby and his pushing the envelope.

[Atomikk]

Pushing the envelope in this case is very negative. Trust me on this one.

His water volume pales in comparison what the needs of each fish are in full maturity. Mature fish are agressive fish for a reason. They want to mate, have bigger feeding needs, and stake territory. How are 60+ fish that are in full maturity going to do that in a 'kiddie pool' such as a 600gal tank?

[jnarowe]

maybe he buys low and sells high?

check this thread.

[MrSaltLife]

Originally posted by Atomikk
Let me try this again, since my initial post was deleted...

Goodwin9, you have a lot of fish in your tank. This is great in the short run, but inthe long run you will encounter a lot of problems. I would rethink the fish selection that you may want to keep. Alike specimens shouldn't be in the same tank (600gal or 10gal) Eventually you will face a lot of fish who have a lot of aggression. Not a good site to see.

For one, I wouldn't keep a Clown Tang with a Sohal. Reduce the amount of tangs in the Acanthurus family. They will fight each other if they are mature/adults.

Just food your thought.

IF you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all I have a small clown tang,large sohal,large naso,small blonde naso,a blue queen angle,and a vlamingi all in my 150 no problems not one!! now take into note that I feed alot wich is good for sps.Goodwin9
my vlamingi is nicer than yours!!(LOL) Sorry maybe none of my buisness(not my thread) but all these fish look healthy in his tank
also note I have had these fish for a long time!!

[MrSaltLife]

Originally posted by triggerfish1976
Atomikk,

I think you're just wasting your breath. There has been several questionable aspects to this setup but any critisism seems to be falling on deaf ears.
I doubt this tank will be up and running a couple of years from now as there will probably be a major crash so these fish will not be given the opportunity to mature.

And u mister triggerfish what is your problem? I think u all are just a bunch of jealous, whiny, little reffers that need to keep to yourselfs!! I know it hurts to hear the truth but someone had to say it and I'm not scared!! Sorry once again MR. goodwin you are an insperation to the rest of us. Thanks for sharing!!

[Atomikk]

Originally posted by MrSaltLife
IF you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all I have a small clown tang,large sohal,large naso,small blonde naso,a blue queen angle,and a vlamingi all in my 150 no problems not one!! now take into note that I feed alot wich is good for sps.Goodwin9
my vlamingi is nicer than yours!!(LOL) Sorry maybe none of my buisness(not my thread) but all these fish look healthy in his tank
also note I have had these fish for a long time!!

Well this post has to be in the running of the 'most ignorant post of the year' contest.

"If I don't have anything nice to say, dont say it all" phrase applies to American Idol, not reefkeeping!! I offered a polite suggestion on what to do know before it gets a whole lot worse. I don't want this guy to go through hell, because he will eventually.

As for thinking that we are jealous? There is nothing to be jealous of. I have my reef tank, and so do others. Goodwin9 has a amazing tank... but his practices need tweaking. Some would say a lot of tweaking.

[MrSaltLife]

but thats none of your buisness!! I dont watch american idol so I cant help you there this phrase comes from childhood when my mother was teaching me manors. I here some people never recieved theres !! I would like to end this conversation now because this is not my thread

[normanfine]

Nice looking setup.

norman

[Goodwin9]

Originally posted by Atomikk
Let me try this again, since my initial post was deleted...

Goodwin9, you have a lot of fish in your tank. This is great in the short run, but inthe long run you will encounter a lot of problems. I would rethink the fish selection that you may want to keep. Alike specimens shouldn't be in the same tank (600gal or 10gal) Eventually you will face a lot of fish who have a lot of aggression. Not a good site to see.

For one, I wouldn't keep a Clown Tang with a Sohal. Reduce the amount of tangs in the Acanthurus family. They will fight each other if they are mature/adults.

Just food your thought.

WOW...what could you have said that would have gotten your post deleted? You can always email or PM your thoughts.

I do have a lot of fish, are you suggesting that in any tank, no matter what the size, that a person should have one of a particular species in the tank? I am not an expert, so I am asking how does one know when for an example, a Yellow tang is mature/adult? Does size, or age factor into this? Right now, I can't say that I see a whole lot of aggrssion in the tank, (other than after introduction of a new fish). IMO,, they all seems to be getting along very nicely. It seems like I learn something new every day in this hobby so I appreciate your thoughts and comments.

[Goodwin9]

Originally posted by triggerfish1976
Atomikk,

I think you're just wasting your breath. There has been several questionable aspects to this setup but any critisism seems to be falling on deaf ears.
I doubt this tank will be up and running a couple of years from now as there will probably be a major crash so these fish will not be given the opportunity to mature.

I wish that you would have been a little more specific. Are you referring to the thickness of the acrylic, the use of sand filters, my method for acclimation and quaranting fish?

I don't want the tank to crash so please give your reasons why you feel there will be a major crash. I'm still learning so please share your insight and knowlegde so that I can prevent this from happening in the future. Thanks!

[erics3000]

I realy don't think people would talk the way the talk if they were face to face. I can see both of your intentions but you both come off very rude. Manners...Concern for fish..You guys really sound like a$$holes..Your approach kill your points..At first i was curious how old is Atommik and trigger fish,what do they do for work? I really dont give 2 s#!$ Your attitudes destroy anything that might be constructive..

Overstocking is an interesting topic. Fish selection is also an interesting topic. A great discussion with a lot of valuable information.

I myself have been interested in Chucks stocking of his tanks. Like Johnathan said he does have a few other tanks up and going with a lot of fish for a few years. That must say something. We sure all don't know everything..Especially about the ocean and the creatures in it, not to mention raising them in captivity..

Sorry to everyone..for my replies. I really look forward to seeing the progress of your tanks Chuck.

Thanks..

[EBOLII]

triggerfish1976 I wonder if your post was necessary, is this not Cougarman's tank and not your own? I notice allot of overbearing/ un-called for statements said here in this forum. Just my thoughts...

Cougarman for what you have invested I hope not for a crash. be ready ust in case eh? then you can go even bigger tank if it does

[erics3000]

Sorry guys, maybe I was a little on the DEFENSIVE side. I may have overreacted a little. I guess I am a litttle wired no need for name calling.

[Goodwin9]

Originally posted by jnarowe
maybe it's wasted breath because he's got more water volume in his house than all of us combined? Have you checked out the live cams on his web site? Looks to me like he probably knows what he is doing.

aggression happens all the time, not just because of stocking levels. In fact, some believe that highly stocked tanks diffuse aggression. I have been careful about my fish selection but more based on wanting to keep certain types of corals long-term, and many fish tend to look at the reef as a giant buffet. I still have 11 tangs in my tank and occassionally I see slight aggression, like between the "hippos", and there have been issues where I have had to pull a fish out a couple of times, but it happens in any size tank with any amount of stockig levels, unless you just have one fish.

My maroon clown is extremely aggressive with certain types of corals, the sand bed, a fairy wrasse, and a sebae clown. All the other fish she has no problem with and I have in fact seen the foxface cruise right through one of her GBTAs without even a blink of an eye from the maroon.

I have been careful but still have three similar body shaped wrasses in my tank, and they get along fine. Once in a while one might chase the other, but what the hell else do they have to do all day?

It all depends on the aquarimu keeper's goals. Some are more interested in the interaction of fish, some want to grow spectacular corals, and others enjoy symbiotic or species tanks.

I give Chuck high marks for his love of the hobby and his pushing the envelope.

Thanks Jonathan...If I knew everything about reef keeping, I wouldn't spend my time reading information posted here in the various threads. I have picked up on some things in the short time that I have been in this hobby. Both from reading and practical experience. I would think that any time you have more than one fish in a tank, you are going to have some sort of problems. If nothing else, people can learn from my mistakes.

I leave the web cams on 24/7 for people to watch so people should be able to judge for themselves whether or not they see a lot of aggrssion in my tanks. I know I don't.

[Goodwin9]

triggerfish1976 & Atomikk Now I am really confused, who's tank is everyone talking about?

[EBOLII]

jnarowe & Goodwin9 Well said!

And UM....web cams on 24/7? I feel left out....I wanna play...do tell


oop look at that a little red house...technology.......neato!

[kau_cinta_ku]

wow well i just read the last 2 pages of this thread and well i just found out about this thread after spending 2 hours drooling at Chucks house. but I can understand why some ppl say he is over stocking but IMHO I don't see a prob. with it in any of his 30 some tanks at his house lol. as this was my 2nd time visiting with him and looking at his tanks, I have never seen any aggression between any of his fish, they all swim where they want and all are very fat and healthy besides a couple that he spoke about.

the reason he has so many tanks is to avoid aggression. a diff tank for diff. species. all of his parameters are in a great range for having so many fish. but also the equipment that he uses also helps very much in keeping them in check. he has some top of the line equipment running his tanks. trust me these are not just setup and go tanks. they have been very well thought out.

also I love seeing a tank like that with so many fish. it really makes it look like an ocean reef. how many times do you watch a documentry on reefs and only see 4 or 5 fish swimming around. hardly ever, you always see hundreds of fish swimming.

so i say keep up what your doing and don't let ppl tell you how to set up your own tank. your water parameters tell you that your doing things right. many ppl here agree with me and don't see any problems with your tank.

i will try to read more tommrow and post some more as now I am subscribed to this thread. and also being tired. lol

but thanks again for showing me the tanks as next time the wife wants to come after i tell her about the setups. and also thanks for the macro I hope this works better than my last few batches.

[jnarowe]

yeah, check his web site. the web cams are sweet. I checked in a while ago and the rays were having a party! damn I want to see that in person. If I had only known last time I was in SD, I would have made the drive. If my wife's Grandmother lives another year, or even if she kicks off, I will definitely invite myself over!

And Chuck, you are doing a good job. I myself wouldn't attempt to keep rays as I think they need more space, but then Energy has had them in his system for years too. Don't worry too much about the kids in the room. You just need to get a few hobbyists going in your area so you can sell off problem fish like my LFS does! That's how I got my maroon clown pair.

They were brought into the LFS and given back because they are a total PITA, and then he sold them and their GBTA to me for $350...don't I feel like an idiot or what? Now I can't put any corals in their area of the tank. I ended up with digitata all over the place because she would toss them, break them, and spit the pieces everywhere. Kinda like a real reef!

[Goodwin9]

Originally posted by erics3000
I realy don't think people would talk the way the talk if they were face to face. I can see both of your intentions but you both come off very rude. Manners...Concern for fish..You guys really sound like a$$holes..Your approach kill your points..At first i was curious how old is Atommik and trigger fish,what do they do for work? I really dont give 2 s#!$ Your attitudes destroy anything that might be constructive..

Overstocking is an interesting topic. Fish selection is also an interesting topic. A great discussion with a lot of valuable information.

I myself have been interested in Chucks stocking of his tanks. Like Johnathan said he does have a few other tanks up and going with a lot of fish for a few years. That must say something. We sure all don't know everything..Especially about the ocean and the creatures in it, not to mention raising them in captivity..

Sorry to everyone..for my replies. I really look forward to seeing the progress of your tanks Chuck.

Thanks..

Thank you for your input and thoughts. I'm not the most knowegable one on this forum, but I have learned a few things. I thought that I had a pretty good grasp on fish compatabilities and put my lions and trigger in a FO tank, my Octopus in his very own tank, and my shark and rays in their own tank. From what little I know, I believe all of the fish I have in my 600 tank are capatable with each other. From my personal experince, I know which fish I am unable to keep either from my lack of knowledge of the species or proper care and feeding of them.

Overstocked, is that the same as heavily stocked? When I first got started, I was told by the LFS that the rule of thumb was 1" of fish for every gallon, so if this is a wifes tale, what constitutes "over stocked" I probably should have done more reading before I bought fish???

By the way, I don't think that you over reacted by any means......

[Atomikk]

Goodwin9, you can judge a fish by its behaviour, age and coloration. The older they get, the worse their aggressiveness becomes. For ex, schooling tangs such as Yellow tangs, should be ok with the size of your tank. You might be ok with Hippo tangs as well. When it comes to solitary fish, such as the big Acanthurus tangs, they will eventually want their own territory within your tank and will fight. They will also fight for dominance, and for food.

That is why I have two different species in my tank. They get along great. You can have a Zebrasoma tang (like a sailfin), and a Sohal tang, and a Atlantic Blue tang in one tank. Different species of tang. Some you can have more of, as they school in nature.. like a Convict tang, yellow, Atlantic, and so on You got to do research to make sure that they will be compatible. I had a yellow tang go to town on a Copperband Butterfly... A butterfly!! So you never know.

I would keep a school of yellow tangs. I would remove most of the Acanthurus tangs, except those that you really like. I wouldn't keep more than 3 in your setup, as they get large (HUGE). With Zebrasoma (Sailfin, Yellow, Purple, Scopas), I would keep only up to two of each. One can take one side of the tank, and the second the other side. Naso tangs I have seen kept in pairs or in threes so you might luck out there. But remember, they all get very very big. So if you do plan on having those fish 5 years down the road.. then you need to sell some off.

I hope that helps.

[MrSaltLife]

I take u didnt care for my defending u?

[Atomikk]

Goodwin0, when it comes to aggression.. you may not see it right now as fish are still young and maturing. Once they get to the adult stage in their growth.... you will know. Trust me. I have seen tangs kill each other before.

[Goodwin9]

Originally posted by MrSaltLife
I take u didnt care for my defending u?

No, I do appreciate it! I've been trying to figure out what they have been talking about and respond to them the best I can. I hope someone can tell me the when & why my tank is going to crash and what I can do to prevent it from happening.

[Goodwin9]

Here is a picture from my 470 and since I don't have a thread going on this tank, maybe someone can chime in and tell me if this tank is going to meet the same fate as my 600. This tank has been up and running about a year and a half.

[MrSaltLife]

They are assuming it will crash!! Thats all there doing