RO/DI Waste innovation

[HBtank]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Ohh do tell the whole story!

The eco idiots ranted and raved about the stuff and how it was going to save the planet.

They were told it was NOT a good idea.

The stuff was tested, and the results were as expected. The combsution byproducts contained this water soluble crap.

The eco idiots demanded that it be used anyway because they despised the lead and wanted an alternative. MTBE raises the oxygen level during combustion and reduces tailpipe emisions. What more could an eco weenie want? No need to look forward at the consequences, just do and AND DO IT NOW!

So our wonderful suits in congress caved to the eco lobby and mandated its use. Several chemical companies started making the stuff under HUGE contracts, and abandoned much of their other business for the new found government mandated wealth. Ohh and the government fixed the price at almost below manufacture cost. So to get the chemcial comapnies on board, they signed mega huge mega year contracts.

Once the eco idiots figured out how stupid they realy were and the stuff was entering the water supply, the contracts were in place and the freight train had left the station.

Not only is the stuff found nationwide in our water (and it is not going away)... we (the taxpayer) are still paying those contracts even though we don't use much of the stuff anywmore. Why becuase the morons in congress signed huge contracts to supply the crap for eternity.

Hell the stuff was a MAJOR player in the stock market (tied to gasoline futures) until recently when the lawsuits start to fly.

At least that is my take on the whole mess!

What shall we talk about next?

DDT and the fact those same enviro weenies messed that up too

You do realize that it is the gasoline leaking from UST's that is causing this problem, not the the fact MTBE was used as an oxygenate in gasoline?

I find it funny where you choose to lay the blame and how you allow yourself to be blinded by cynicism without any real thought. Maybe I am to harsh, you are probably just regurgitating some propaganda you read at "I-hate-eco-weenies.com".

So it is the "eco-idiots" fault that gasoline suppliers had/have faulty UST containment systems and have dumped millions of gallons of gasoline into our surface aquifers over the years?

You do realize that the REAL PROBLEM has put FAR MORE into the groundwater than that one single oxygenate that you read about at "I-hate-eco-weenies.com"?

I would be far more worried about the benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylenes, tertiary butanol, di-isopropyl ether etc.. than just MTBE which really only causes groundwater to smell and taste bad compared to some of the nastier chemicals of concern listed above.

I hope I never get stuck with the blinders that you obviously wear.

[aznlmpulse]

HBtank, I'll save you some time. BeanAnimal is the ABSOLUTE, DEFINITIVE source/answer (and everything in between) for anything/everything RO/DI related. There's no arguing him. He'll have an answer/refuting argument for everything you have to say.....because he is ALWAYS right.

Save yourself from the frustration and don't check this thread again!!! Run!!!

[HBtank]

Glad it is not RO/DI that I am talking...err.. arguing about

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by aznlmpulse
HBtank, I'll save you some time. BeanAnimal is the ABSOLUTE, DEFINITIVE source/answer (and everything in between) for anything/everything RO/DI related. There's no arguing him. He'll have an answer/refuting argument for everything you have to say.....because he is ALWAYS right.

Save yourself from the frustration and don't check this thread again!!! Run!!!

Jealous? Or does it just bother you when people are smarter than you?

[daven]

Originally posted by aznlmpulse
HBtank, I'll save you some time. BeanAnimal is the ABSOLUTE, DEFINITIVE source/answer (and everything in between) for anything/everything RO/DI related. There's no arguing him. He'll have an answer/refuting argument for everything you have to say.....because he is ALWAYS right.

Save yourself from the frustration and don't check this thread again!!! Run!!!

Heh, it's not just RO/DI :-) Actually one of my daily things is to search on his username and read all the threads he has posted to. Only a couple others get that treatment.

[aznlmpulse]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Jealous? Or does it just bother you when people are smarter than you?

Wow....

You're just So full of yourself. It must be a treat to wake up every morning and look in the mirror. Bet you look forward to that every night before turning off the lights.

[BeanAnimal]

Yes, Yes I do.

Feel free to call me out anytime you think I am wrong or do not have my facts straight. Be sure you slept at a Holiday Inn the night before... you will need it

If I am wrong, then I get to learn something. Learning is great.

I am wrong sometimes, but not often. I don't usually enter a debate or say something unless I have my ducks in a line.

I have opinions and do not mind sharing them. I also spend a great deal of time here helping people. I enjoy it.

As for dragging the rest of this thread down:

HBTank: I had a lengthy response composed, but will forgo it for this shorter lengthy response

1) A significant amount of the stuff (MTBE) is emmited from the tailpipes of a our nationwide fleet of vehicles. A large portion of which [our nations vehicles] do not run at their targeted combustion efficiency. In the tank, unburned out the tailpipe. No propaganda here. There have been dozens of studies. The stuff is being phased out because of this, not the leaking tanks, which are being replaced by law.

2) MTBE causes a significant increase in the emission of formaldehyde and other nasty compounds and organics (some of which you mentioned). Do the ends justify the means? If your a global warming fruitcake who only sees carbon emissions and nothing else, then of course.

3) The MTBE is a known cancer causing agent. It does more than make the water smell. If you think differently then you may want to rethink who you accuse of wearing blinders. The science and studies are there. The only people who say NO are those who produce the stuff or profit from its sale.

4) Of course leaking tanks have created a large part of the problem. That does not excuse the stupidity of using the stuff in the first place. Anything in the name of reduced "greenhouse emissions" though, right? The stuff was a known problem before it was ever mandated. The money and the enviro-lobbies could care less. The buzz was "greenhouse gas" and none of the morons looked any further.

5) The eco-weenies and their left thinking generate more problems than good more often than not. If they spent more time using logic and science, they would get better results. But then they would not be eco-weenies would they? Moronic fuel formulations that allow artificial supply side price fixing, moronic mandates on fuel vapor recovery systems on cars and gas pumps, etc. Spend the money where it works, not where it feels good. Good science and good environmental policy are possible, but not when the activist fruitcakes are the ones calling the shots.

6) I have no problem with the desire to burn high oxygen fuel to reduce pollutants. The key concept is REDUCTION of pollutants with an eye on the big picture, not the buzz-word goal.

7) I do not deal in propaganda. I like to get my information from both sides and use science or logic to base an opinion, NOT touchy feeling heartstrings and group think. I have never been to that website that you mention (if it exists) and frankly don't like sites that skew the facts to attack either side.

8) You speak of blinders and not wanting to get stuck with them. You speak of propaganda. My bet is that you suck up every drop of the global warming propaganda with those same blinders.

Was your goal here to further the knowledge about MTBE and correct any perceived omissions or errors that I made in my statements, or was it to attack me because you don't like my opinion?

Thanks for your input on the subject... At least I know where you stand now.

[EBOLII]

I-hate-eco-weenies.com......bummer no such website

global warming propaganda?....what?

seriously.....um so then every one hates the idea of waste into a tank for sprinkler?

[HBtank]

Originally posted by BeanAnimal
Yes, Yes I do.

Feel free to call me out anytime you think I am wrong or do not have my facts straight. Be sure you slept at a Holiday Inn the night before... you will need it

If I am wrong, then I get to learn something. Learning is great.

I am wrong sometimes, but not often. I don't usually enter a debate or say something unless I have my ducks in a line.

I have opinions and do not mind sharing them. I also spend a great deal of time here helping people. I enjoy it.

As for dragging the rest of this thread down:

HBTank: I had a lengthy response composed, but will forgo it for this shorter lengthy response

1) A significant amount of the stuff (MTBE) is emmited from the tailpipes of a our nationwide fleet of vehicles. A large portion of which [our nations vehicles] do not run at their targeted combustion efficiency. In the tank, unburned out the tailpipe. No propaganda here. There have been dozens of studies. The stuff is being phased out because of this, not the leaking tanks, which are being replaced by law.

2) MTBE causes a significant increase in the emission of formaldehyde and other nasty compounds and organics (some of which you mentioned). Do the ends justify the means? If your a global warming fruitcake who only sees carbon emissions and nothing else, then of course.

3) The MTBE is a known cancer causing agent. It does more than make the water smell. If you think differently then you may want to rethink who you accuse of wearing blinders. The science and studies are there. The only people who say NO are those who produce the stuff or profit from its sale.

4) Of course leaking tanks have created a large part of the problem. That does not excuse the stupidity of using the stuff in the first place. Anything in the name of reduced "greenhouse emissions" though, right? The stuff was a known problem before it was ever mandated. The money and the enviro-lobbies could care less. The buzz was "greenhouse gas" and none of the morons looked any further.

5) The eco-weenies and their left thinking generate more problems than good more often than not. If they spent more time using logic and science, they would get better results. But then they would not be eco-weenies would they? Moronic fuel formulations that allow artificial supply side price fixing, moronic mandates on fuel vapor recovery systems on cars and gas pumps, etc. Spend the money where it works, not where it feels good. Good science and good environmental policy are possible, but not when the activist fruitcakes are the ones calling the shots.

6) I have no problem with the desire to burn high oxygen fuel to reduce pollutants. The key concept is REDUCTION of pollutants with an eye on the big picture, not the buzz-word goal.

7) I do not deal in propaganda. I like to get my information from both sides and use science or logic to base an opinion, NOT touchy feeling heartstrings and group think. I have never been to that website that you mention (if it exists) and frankly don't like sites that skew the facts to attack either side.

8) You speak of blinders and not wanting to get stuck with them. You speak of propaganda. My bet is that you suck up every drop of the global warming propaganda with those same blinders.

Was your goal here to further the knowledge about MTBE and correct any perceived omissions or errors that I made in my statements, or was it to attack me because you don't like my opinion?

Thanks for your input on the subject... At least I know where you stand now.

Well, I will take some time answering the MTBE topic and some others later. But for now:

"Was your goal here to further the knowledge about MTBE and correct any perceived omissions or errors that I made in my statements, or was it to attack me because you don't like my opinion?"

All of the above. In regards to "attacking", I think the language you choose is pretty counter productive and childish, and I was attacking the use of it. Eco-weenie and eco-idiots? Come on...

I think it is a very poor tactic used to stifle discussion or enflame it. The reasons for doing so are varied, but I respect none of them.

And I would hesitate before trying to start guessing where I personally stand on topics and sticking one of your childish labels on me. You already know that I steal fish and coral from the ocean and keep them in a glass box...

[RobbyG]

I don't think this kind of post is very useful. If you know that a person is wrong or "Full Of It" then the simple solution is to prove he's wrong. Just find an incorrect post and research the hell out of it and post the info to show he is wrong. I think Bean is sometimes mistaken also, but everyone makes mistakes. Overall he is a very knowledgeable person especially in Ro/Di Matters and rarely gets into things he is not sure about, don't try to slam him with posts like this if you don't have proof.

BTW having a Guru in every area is what makes RC so great, we have Aquaman, AZ and Bean on RO/DI. Randy Boomer and Jdieck in the chemistry area. and many others in Biology, Electronics, Plumbing, etc. These are the guys that we can turn to when no one else has the answer.

Originally posted by aznlmpulse
HBtank, I'll save you some time. BeanAnimal is the ABSOLUTE, DEFINITIVE source/answer (and everything in between) for anything/everything RO/DI related. There's no arguing him. He'll have an answer/refuting argument for everything you have to say.....because he is ALWAYS right.

Save yourself from the frustration and don't check this thread again!!! Run!!!

[AZDesertRat]

Leaking USTs with normal gasoline are a problem but nothing compared to gasoline with ethanol and other grains in it. Gasoline floats on the top and while it is an environmental problem it can be relatively easily skimmed off the top of the water table. MTBE disolves in water and is a whole other story requiring a different much more costly treatment method which is not nearly as effective. Oxygenated fuels are one of the stupidest ideas we have come up with yet at least if it is going to be stored in USTs.

[HBtank]

Not much "normal gasoline" out there, and unfortunately we are stuck dealing with everything else along with it. And yes, in the end it is stupid. The reality is UST's do leak, and so does the product piping from the UST's. It is much better now than the days of steel tanks where most of this mess was created, but it still happens.

As a general rule, where you find petroleum hydrocrabons, you find multiple chemicals of concern.

And we are not always lucky enough to have gasoline in its surface phase to assist in removal, so skimming is not always an option. And once at groundwater, and depending on the time since release, you are going to have dissolved COC's, even TPHg.

And actually, carbon based groundwater extraction and remediation systems are pretty efficient at removing almost all of the chemicals of concern, it's just groundwater extraction itself is not always feasible.

[BeanAnimal]

I have done my share of reading about MTBE and the shenanigans that have perpetuated the problem. I chose my language to illustrate a point.

If you have credible information to add, then I would certainly be open absorbing it. I would hope that you can see (from context) that my problem is the mentality and process that drives disasters such as this.

You just said

Not much "normal gasoline" out there, and unfortunately we are stuck dealing with everything else along with it. And yes, in the end it is stupid.

That is and was my EXACT point. IT is not stupid, the people who dream up these plans and force them down our throats are stupid. They see nothing but their cause and everything and everybody else be damned. Those are the people I refer to and the people that I dislike. Sadly, their numbers are growing in this era of disinformation and blind eco-activism.

I did not ask for your respect and am not at all disappointed that you do not agree with me or my use of adjectives.

I suppose it would be best if we let this go, as it does not appear to be serving any useful purpose. The comments were meant to be in context with the same moronic mentality that would justify the fining of a home owner for watering with "grey water" from their RO/DI.

[RobbyG]

Bean we better start doing something because the old ways are not working. What I find annoying is people on TV debating Global warming. I don't need any fool to tell me it's not happening or if it is happening. I know it's happening and anybody over the age of 20 should also realize it by just looking outside.

We need to get past the debate because that's what the oil companies want us to do, they are hoping that we keep debating if global warming is real or not real for another 10 years, while they use the time to quickly make a few more trillions.

My condolences go out to the UK. they will be the first country to really get the hard end of the stick. These recent floods I think are just the tip of a major disaster that they will face over the next 20 years.

[BeanAnimal]

RobbyG, it is nothing that has not happened before. The plains of the United states were under glaciers 2 thousand years ago. Before that, the land was hot and dry. The climate changes, and will continue to change.

Creating bad policy just to say we are doing something does not help anybody but those who are foolish enough to think it helps. The oil companies should be the least of your (anybody's) worries.

What future are we talking about? Our kids? Their kids? With or without man, the climate is going to change in a drastic way, it always has and always will. Tilting at windmills is not going to save us.

Alas, this is not the right forum to discuss global warming or the rest of the stuff.

The comments were directed towards backwards thinking as it related to the thread and AZrats rather funny but sadly true observation.

Bean

[Ontosrob]

What's the name of this thread?????? Oh yea.......BacK to RO/DI WASTE. Check out "Ag" tanks ( the kind you see on the back of farm tractors) at a Fleet Farm or similar. They come in 100, 200 & 400 gal. sizes. They have two threaded holes in the bottom. One 3/4" (for your intake) and one 1 1/4" (for your output). You could repressurize it with a 1/2 hp jetpump (wellpump). plumb in a independent exterior hose bib. You put a stand pipe with a plastic toilet valve to keep the tank from over flowing. The question what to do if the tank is full ( the toilet valve is shut) and you are still making RO water? Any ideas????????

I have heard RO/DI waste water is great for plants!

[miwoodar]

My waste line goes to my lawn. $2 solution. It's the greenest part of my entire yard because it is the only part that gets watered on a consistent basis.

When temps get below freezing the waste line will be moved a drain in my garage.

When my company cleans up GW, and we do it on a daily basis, we're cleaning up A LOT of COCs. That's right, the list is LONG. MTBE is definitely bad due to it's mobility...but it wouldn't be there in the first place if it weren't for the leaky USTs. Don't blame MTBE, blame the faulty USTs.

Wait a minute! I have a solution! I will drain my RO/DI waste line into a UST in my yard and the whole yard will eventually be green!

Back to the point of this thread - why can't you just put a stop valve or solinoid on the tank and elevate it in or beside the garage? We do things like this all the time in our reef tanks. That would also mean less pumps, less moving parts and a much lower cost. My buddy uses a simple cistern to collect his gutter water to water his garden. An RO/DI effluent collection system need not be overly complicated.