New reefkeeper in your midst

scottknight · #1 03/15/2005, 06:44 PM

Hello,

Introduction. We live in Allison Park, and bought a house that has a 125G tank set up for saltwater with a 55G sump. Previous owners paid a service to take care of their very expensive fish and had no DSB, macro algae, etc...just crushed coral and some plastic plants.

Been reading for a long time and am ready to start the system up for the first time (for us) next week. I will put something up on a website when the hosting service gets sorted out. RO/DI unit should be here Friday. Made some mods to the sump to use mud and a carbon mat filter. Still trying to decide where to get the live rock and if I should get any live sand.

It looks like there is a meeting this weekend, so we are thinking about coming.

vijaysub · #2 03/15/2005, 06:52 PM

Welcome to the group Scott.

The meetings are usually pretty fun and very informative. If you are coming, let us know and a bunch of us can bring some live sand so you can "seed" your system.

Vijay

scottknight · #3 03/15/2005, 06:59 PM

Thanks. That sounds like a great offer. I have read about people doing that before, but have no idea how. Would I need to bring any special kind of container cleaned in any special way?

As it stands, I bought 550# of sand from Home Depot, but am thinking about looking for something different. It is not as white as I was hoping for. Maybe Lowe's has something less tan? I have a hard time justifying $30+/bag from the fish store when it's only $4/bag at the Depot...

AquaworldPSC · #4 03/15/2005, 08:46 PM

hmmm...doesn't sound good at all!! Unless it is south down sand I would not put that in your tank. It isn't aragonite based and would probably turn into a golf course of algae before you even add your first fish. (I'm pretty sure that using "fake" sand would probably kill saltwater fish anyways)Hopefully you have not opened the bags yet. You may want to research this a bit more before jumping the gun. If your looking for cheap sand(well cheap for aragonite) I just got in a huge shipment of sugar sized sand by ESV in 50lb containers. I Can probably go as low as $20 per 50lb. The sand is comparable, if not better than Carib Sea. Call me either way at the storeand I can give you some advice and info. over the phone on starting up your tank.... Jack @ AquaWorld PSC
412.732.9100

P.S. As far as live rock I can get it for you... as long as you buy in bulk, probably less than $4/lb.

AquaworldPSC · #5 03/15/2005, 08:49 PM

do you have AOL instant messanger... I see that your on now...? what is your name on it?

vijaysub · #6 03/15/2005, 09:28 PM

Scott,

Jack is right about the sand being different. Most, if not all the sand available at the hardware stores is silica based. You do want to get aragonite based sand. As Jack stated Southdown is aragonite based but has been unavailable in the Pittsburgh area for the last few months.

I am not sure what side effects you would get from silica based sand. Maybe some of the experienced members can give you an opinion.

Another thing you may want to consider is how much sand you need/want.

For instance, I have a Fish Only tank which only has a 1" crushed coral bed to make cleaning easier. But my reef does have a good deep sand bed. There are Pro/Cons of each. Everyone has their opinion on what is best or what works for them.

Before you make any major purchases try and do some research on this site. Also another thing you could do is wait until you come to the next meeting and talk to the members about some of their recommendations. Again there is no "best" way...it's the way that works best for you.

A lot of what you are going to do is trial and error and the experiences of some of the other guys in the club may be able to help steer you in the right direction.

Vijay

scottknight · #7 03/16/2005, 06:43 AM

Thanks, both of you. That is what I suspected about the sand. Just a little background: I have been reading a lot for a while, though have only found Reef Central lately. Quite a few suggest getting the aragonite at Home Depot, so I grabbed their Quickrete Premium Play Sand (sifted, washed, dried) because it was the lightest color sand they had. It pretty much has no other info on the package. No problem, I can take it back

Now that I read through the posts in this forum, I have a little different perspective on getting the sand...

Jack, it looks like I will be coming to visit you soon.

That is a superb price on sand and rock from what I can see. I would rather build a relationship with a LFS, and the fact that you take time to post here sends a good message to me.

AquaworldPSC · #8 03/16/2005, 10:40 AM

Scott....I am looking forward to hear from you. Just call me at the store (412-732-9100). If you are not familiar with the area, we are located maybe 10-15 minutes from you. Talk to you soon..Jack

Totlxtc · #9 03/16/2005, 02:08 PM

Welcome!

As for the Quickcrete sand, it will work and wont cause a massive algae outbreak as some say. The Old Castle playsand is the one you want if you want a aragonite sand. It also has the better variety of sand particles for a deep sand bed and a nice white color but if its not available the other type will work fine. Thousands of reefers have used it for years with no problems including myself. I do/did have the Old Castle (Southdown at the time) and have to admit it is better if available.

acer · #10 03/16/2005, 09:38 PM

Hi- also newbe- been in the "club" for about two months now. I live in gibsonia (Hampton) - have a 55 now- but setting up a 90 reef soon. Looking forward to meeting you on saturday. Did you move form outside of the PIttsburgh area? If you need anything- If I can help I will - let me know at backsoft@comcast.net[/email]

Ted

SVTour · #11 03/16/2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by acer
Hi- also newbe- been in the "club" for about two months now. I live in gibsonia (Hampton) - have a 55 now- but setting up a 90 reef soon. Looking forward to meeting you on saturday. Did you move form outside of the PIttsburgh area? If you need anything- If I can help I will - let me know at backsoft@comcast.net[/email]

Ted

Welcome Scott...look forward to meeting you as well.

Ted, you probably live about 2 miles from me. I'm off of Babcock, right by the Villa.

scottknight · #12 03/17/2005, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by acer Did you move form outside of the PIttsburgh area?

Well, I am a transplant from Michigan and moved here in 1997. We lived on Thompson Run Rd until we bought this house in Allison Park that has the tank. It was here when we looked at the house and were lucky to have negotiated it into the deal. Had they taken it, we would most likely not put one in from scratch. I was very excited when we scored the setup and have been waiting 1.5+ years to fire it up. Now is the time.

Since I am pretty comfortable with online forums, you can count on me being here on a regular basis.

BTW, the wife is onboard with coming to the meeting on Saturday, so it looks like we will be there.

acer · #13 03/17/2005, 02:50 PM

DO you want to ride together on saturday?

SVTour · #14 03/17/2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by acer
DO you want to ride together on saturday?

Sent you a PM Ted...

manutd16 · #15 03/17/2005, 11:19 PM

I used to work for lowes and its hard to believe but play sand an many of their sands were tested and traces of arsenic(SP) were found. now I dont know how much these amounts would but but Im sure they wouldnt be aloud to sell sand used in sand boxed that has rat poisoning in it.
doesnt look like Ill be able to make this months meeting either. stupid petco has me working on saturdays (guess u need ur aquatic specialist on ur best fish selling days)
hopefully I can make next months.

dsmboostaholic · #16 03/19/2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scottknight
Thanks. That sounds like a great offer. I have read about people doing that before, but have no idea how. Would I need to bring any special kind of container cleaned in any special way?

As it stands, I bought 550# of sand from Home Depot, but am thinking about looking for something different. It is not as white as I was hoping for. Maybe Lowe's has something less tan? I have a hard time justifying $30+/bag from the fish store when it's only $4/bag at the Depot...

The Home Depot in Allison Park should still have 50 bags I ordered a while back of "southdown". It is now called "Old Castle tropical play sand" and it is from Easton Pa. Make sure you get the bags that are from Easton Pa. Just go in and ask for them, they are still in the back I think. I have no need for them anymore.......

scottknight · #17 03/19/2005, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dsmboostaholic The Home Depot in Allison Park should still have 50 bags.......

Very nice, as I will be there today returning that stuff I have no need for

I asked when I was there, but apparently the guys I talked to had no idea what I was after. They just snickered something about it all being frozen anyway

Thank you.

On another note, I am having a little trouble finding a hand tightened fitting to finish the sump plumbing. The ones at Home Depot look the same, but have slightly different size threads and will not work. My website is active as of yesterday, but I still need to add some more pictures. Here is what I have so far: http://scottknight.com/gallery/

Yes, it's lame. Yes, it's better than nothing. If anyone is great with web design, I could use some help

Now, about getting some seed sand tonight....do I just need to bring a clean container to the meeting?

dsmboostaholic · #18 03/19/2005, 01:04 PM

Looks like a very old Seahorse setup. The Pump is.... ok but they had a ton of trouble with the thermal switch. it overheats and will shut down for about 15 minutes. not all but some do that. The U.V.'s are ok but the company shut down about a year ago and it is nearly impossible to find the gaskits for when you change bulbs. Infact, Seahorse has them on their FW systems and has to reuse the gaskits everytime they do a bulb change. I would get those out of there.The CPR skimmer is good(looks like an sr4), I would do away with the trickle tower and convert the sump into a refugium. If you go reef, you will need way more circulation that that pump is putting out. other than that, NICE HOUSE.

scottknight · #19 03/19/2005, 02:22 PM

Wow, now that is more info about my equipment than I have been able to gather in half a year on my own

I will try to post some more pictures when I get time. Been busy working on the tank lately and had all I could do to get that much posted... It's funny, the main tank has an Elmer's sticker on it with a 1995 date. The sump has a 1999 inspection sticker and Lloyd took one look at the wet/dry box and said "I built that". So you are right: probably a 1999ish Seahorse setup.

Anyway, the sump IS now a refugium

I only need to put a final bulkhead in before the pump return. The wet/dry box is out of there and I am putting some of the bio balls into an area where the water will drain from the tank. Mud and calerpa will go in the middle and a carbon pad filter just before the pump.

The skimmer (yes, an SR4 with RIO1700) is out of there unless it turns out that I actually need it. Many different opinions out there on that, but quite a few have told me that with enough mud and calerpa, I don't actually need to skim. I have been struggling with the idea of putting a compartment right before the pump return for one just in case....or I can always build a little stand to drop it right into the refugium if need be.

Fortunately, the pump is easy to swap out (now that I [b]finally[/b[ found the matching unions at Sears Hardware). I found the pump curves on Grunfos's site, and it appears that it should be pushing 10-11 gallons/minute at that head height. I showed it to Lloyd at Seahorse and his only comment was "That is a good pump. Use it." It will be a while before this tank has anything other than fish and rock.

From my reading, it also looks like I can add a wavemaker or just more powerheads to the tank and leave the overall sump flow alone. Not exactly sure what the implications of that are, though.

I have wondered about those UV filters. Don't need them at all? If not, they are gone. Easy enough to plumb those right onto a shelf in the garage

Went to Home Depot today and returned the sand I bought and they were out of the Southdown. Well, they had 3 bags left; one was torn and leaking, one had some visible mold and the other was probably fine. All from the bottom of the heap. The upside is that they appear to have many huge stacks of the stuff at the other stores (like 90 bags at Ross Park, 145 in Cranberry, etc).

Thanks again for all that info. Hope to see you there tonight.

dsmboostaholic · #20 03/20/2005, 01:26 AM

1. Make a place for a skimmer just in case. everyone has their opinion but if you have the room why not do it. I used to run a CPR in my refugium. Did not make much of a difference in my tank, but its something you should have.

2. If you use a UV, I like Aqua Ultraviolet. I have used many of their UV's and all are great and have excelent bulb life. Remember when you get a UV, DO THE KILL RATE MATH!!!! The amount of water passing through the UV is soooooo very important.

http://www.championlighting.com/e/en...rs/aquauv.html

3. 600 Gph is no way near enough for any 125 marine tank. Look into a Iwaki or Blueline pump. A Quietone 6000 MAY just make it also. I would go for the others though. Sea Swirl is a highend wave maker that would do well for a 125.

http://www.championlighting.com/e/en...mps/iwaki.html

4. If you use Miracle Mud, you will need 30Lbs and will cost you a small fortune. Get it online! And depending on the type of Macro you go with you may need more circulation in the refugium and or more intense lighting for it to grow well.

http://www.championlighting.com/e/en...item=main:mm10

5. SouthDown/Old Castle sand is the exact same stuff as they sell in the fish shops. It is just not sifted into different grades . It is VERY fine and you will need to rinse the heck out of it before you use it. DSB's CAN CRASH. Not all will but it can happen. It may tak 5 years it may take 2. Better off putting less than an inch of sand in and adding ESV products for calcium and Alk control.

6. have fun, go slow....

Screamer · #21 03/22/2005, 11:02 AM

If you are looking to buy stuff online (skimmers, UV's, pumps, ETC...) try going to one of these sites .Champion lighting is expensive.

www.marinedepot.com
www.customaquatics.com

I have ordered from both of these places (multiple times) and have never had a problem.

Just FYI

scottknight · #22 03/25/2005, 08:27 AM

Thanks for all the replies so far. The problem of 'delay by education' is rearing it's ugly head right about now. I initially thought I was a couple of fittings and some water away from firing this system up, but now have decided to do some more tinkering first.

I am comfortable with all the plumbing, constructing an overflow system, return manifold, etc....but I think I should probably be pump shopping first. dsmboostaholic made some recommendations a couple of posts up (thanks for all that info, BTW), but what I am having trouble tracking down is real life noise considerations. Power consumption is a secondary concern to a pump that needs to coexist with humans in our home theater room

Who has the skinny on which pump(s) will be quietest at 20/25/30x turnover rates? If I assume the 125 gallon display tank with the 55 gallon sump minus pump off and rock/sand volume will end up around 150 gallons, then I should be looking at pumps that are a min of 1500 gph with a 5' rise. This seems to put me in Iwaki 100RT territory just to get 10x turnover. I would just as soon not get into multiple pumps and check valves if at all possible. Does my logic seem sound so far?