Is my tank too small for a SH?

[cammy]

I have a 20 gallon long that I would like to put a seahorse in. Is this possible? From what I've been reading this size is too big for dwarf seahorse and not tall enough for full size. Is there any SH I could put in a 20L?

[ann83]

Not really, there are a couple that might be okay, maybe, but that aren't readily available and that would need a chiller to keep tank temps in the low 60's. You are better off buying a better suited tank though, if you are going to spend the money on a chiller anyway. If you are unable to spend money on a new tank and/or chiller, then you won't be able to properly house any species of seahorse.

[pledosophy]

IMO dwarfs would be fine in that tank.

[ann83]

For a newbie, pledo?

[Condiman]

Yes a 20 should be just fine. I have a 20 tall setup and it works great.

[cammy]

I am very much a newbie so the conflicting answers are confusing. My 20L has no fish only a CB shrimp and some snails a feather duster and some mushrooms. I do have a 110 gal which is a FOWLR. It has only a PB Tang and a mated pair of percula clowns. If I landscaped a section with low flow could I put a pair of full size SH in there?

[ann83]

Sorry for the confusion, but there are many different ways of keeping seahorses. The 20 gallon long is too short for most species of seahorse.
There are some species, like capensis, that are smaller and appreciate the length of the tank, but they would still appreciate a taller tank (preferably 3x the height of the seahorse). Capensis also need a chiller because they need to be kept in the mid to lower 60's (public aquariums keep them in the upper 50's even) in the home aquarium in order to help prevent stress and disease.
The reason I didn't recommend dwarf seahorses for your 20 gallon long is because typically, with new dwarf keepers (especially those who are new to seahorses), larger tanks can be problematic, because the feeding density needed to make sure your dwarves get adequite food is ridiculously high in a large tank. The other option is to try to make the tank semi-self sustainable, using lots and lots and lots of pods, plus seperate pod cultures and the occasional feeding of newly hatched brine shrimp... but the idea is new, and something that experienced keepers are working on at the moment. For a new seahorse keeper, I wouldn't recommend dwarves, and for the new dwarf keeper, I wouldn't recommend keeping dwarfs in anything larger than a 5 or 10 gallon. If you did decide to keep dwarves in your 20 gallon, you would have to get rid of the shrimp, and you would potentially have to treat it with panacur at some point, which would definately kill the feather duster, and might kill the snails and mushrooms as well (panacur rids the tank of hydroids, which can kill dwarf seahorses).
I wouldn't recommend keeping seahorses in your 110, mostly because of the tang. In tanks with aggressive feeders and fast swimmers, seahorses have difficulty getting enough food, if any at all. Plus, fast swimmers can really stress seahorses, even if it doesn't appear that the fish is physically bothering the seahorse at all. I wouldn't ever mix tangs with seahorses. The clowns would also normally be a problem, but, if they have defined their territory in one end of the tank, and you arrange a seagrass bed or gorg forest in the other for the seahorses, you might be okay... although your seahorses will probably try to visit the entire tank, and would likely run into the clowns, so if they are aggressive at all, thats a no go. The tank would also need to be seahorse-proofed. All anemones, stinging corals, clams, and crabs, would need to be removed, and any exposed powerhead or filter intakes would need to be covered with bridal net or a filter sponge (hydor koralias would need to be removed, they can chop up a seahorse tail), also if the heater is in the display and not in a sump, it would need to be covered as well. Seahorses were last in line when brains were passed out, and they will drag their tails over anything, and wrap their tails around anything, regardless of any danger that thing poses.
Oh, and in both cases, for tropical seahorses (dwarf or otherwise) temperatures should not exceed 74 F, to prevent bacterial infection.
The best place to start when considering seahorses is to read through the libraries and forums on www.seahorse.org and www.syngnathid.org... the forums are the most up to date information you'll find on seahorses (most published books are out of date at this point, since seahorses are a new field, and obviously most places selling seahorses are a bit untrustworthy), and the libraries are free and full of information. There is a good book out there written by Tracy Warland as well, if you can get a hold of it.

[cammy]

ann83 thank you so much for the detailed reply. I think I will wait on getting a seahorse until I can get a tank set up designed around their needs.

[pledosophy]

Originally posted by ann83
For a newbie, pledo?

Ya sure. Why not.

Playing abit of the devil's advocate here, but IMO it is better to have newb's keeping things in larger tanks then smaller tanks. A 5g is not very stable (pardon the pun) where a 20g would be much more so.

Put a pair of dwarfs in a 20g, feed bbs daily, keep up on the water changes, the pods will come by themselves. Using macro algaes will help with filtration from the feedings and encourage pod growth, as well as keep down the nuissance algaes.

I don't think it would be wise to try to have a newb setup a self sustaining system (more of a concept then a reality IMO, not talking smack, but who is actually doing it with dwarfs again?). I have run and do run self sustaining reef systems (O.K. I admit I add calcuim) but for a dwarf tank I think the idea is to premature for a newb to handle. Just an opinion.

However I do not think IMHO that a newb keeping a pair of dwarfs in a 20g with daily feeding is going to be a bad thing, if the tank is setup for dwarfs.

In this circumstance the tank is not setup for dwarfs due to tankmates, so dwarfs have no business in there, but in general I don't see larger tanks for dwarfs being a problem. I think it can be done, and have seen others do it. I've been thinking about turning my 20g long into either a dwarf or pipefish tank. I think it would be fun for me and them as well as a good home.

JMO on how I see things. I could be wrong.

[ann83]

You know I appreciate your input pledo. I was looking at things from the point of view that I've always heard feeding density was a problem. Also, I am not sure how much you would actually SEE your dwarves in a 20 if you only put a few in... so that might be a problem for someone who wanted the tank as their first and one and only seahorse tank.
I agree that no one in the thread you mentioned is actually doing a self sustaining tank at the moment, which is why I referred to it as an idea being worked on, rather than a system in use. The reason I brought it up was, I would think that aside from turning off filtration and locating all dwarves to target feed, that in a 20, you would almost have to have a fairly sustainable pod population going for them to get enough food.
I've actually considered doing a big dwarf tank too, since I like the look of tanks sans fish just fine. But, ultimately, that would be one too many fish projects at the moment ;-)

[burblerboy]

Another option would be to section off one side of the 20. So you could keep the dwarfs and easily maintain feeding densities on one side while running filtration on the other.

[0yst3rman]

Im having truble beliving there is such a thing as having to large of an aqrium. considering that they`re from the ocean, nah probly right ocean is prety small.

I love sarcasm it`s great.

[crazinezz978]

20L is not adequate except dwarfs. 20H is much better IMO

[3fins]

Guys, 20g is WAY to big for dwarfs, mainly because u have to keep..ALOT of them in there AND youd half to keep A BUNTCH of bbs in that tank. And i dont recomend them for the fist SH species. there very..very tedious ..however if wanted to keep them do it in a 10 or less. I recomend 3g jbj or 2.5 aga but its difficult do keep parm. in check

hope that helps 3fins

[pledosophy]

Originally posted by 0yst3rman
Im having truble beliving there is such a thing as having to large of an aqrium. considering that they`re from the ocean, nah probly right ocean is prety small.

I love sarcasm it`s great.

The problem comes with the feeding density needed to sustain the speciment, and the filtration it would require to remove wastes. If you put a zot in to large of a tank, then feed the tank the appropriate amount of food for one zot, then the zot will starve as it will be unable to find enough food to eat. Get it?

Guys, 20g is WAY to big for dwarfs, mainly because u have to keep..ALOT of them in there AND youd half to keep A BUNTCH of bbs in that tank.

Who says you have to keep a ton of zots in a big tank, you could start with a pair. You will have to over feed, but bbs is ot the only food source for dwarfs, there are others that can live in the tank and not decay, even proliferate.

I'm just saying it is possible.

[3fins]

Well, there only the size 1" maby a little biger full grown. Being that small in a thank..that big maby hard for you to see them. Im just trying to help u out. I no that i LOVE to watch them and i think you would to.
Pods mysis shrimp and bbs..mysis if ur lucky
I think you could do it, But u cant have LR or sand. Unles you get it from seawater express.
I just think it be Better FOR you to have them in a 10 that way u can see them.
3fins

[David123]

Originally posted by 3fins
Guys, 20g is WAY to big for dwarfs, mainly because u have to keep..ALOT of them in there AND youd half to keep A BUNTCH of bbs in that tank. And i dont recomend them for the fist SH species. there very..very tedious ..however if wanted to keep them do it in a 10 or less. I recomend 3g jbj or 2.5 aga but its difficult do keep parm. in check

hope that helps 3fins

Im sorry, I totally disagree, seems to me that most people say this, and I have no idea why, they do ok in the ocean, and that is bigger even than a 20.

Most keep them in very small tanks and this is hard to keep parameters in check, so the horses suffer, badly.

[3fins]

...OK then...Im just trying to say with what experince ive had.

[pledosophy]

Originally posted by 3fins
But u cant have LR or sand. Unles you get it from seawater express.

Where are you coming up with this stuff?

Do you really think George (member name Noni on this forum) is the only one who has figured out how to make hydroid free liverock or livesand. You can find the directions posted hundreds of times in this vary forum.

George is a great guy and all and I'm all for recommending people do business with him, I've always been happy but the statement is a bit far fetched IMHO.

[3fins]

..i just thought i could help. Im sorry.
3fins