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#1
03/24/2007, 10:04 PM
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Advanced rearing tank system
First let me start off by saying that this is not intended for the first time breeder, or even the hobbyist breeder, but instead is aimed at the small/mid sized home breeder or the breeder of the rare and difficult where maximizing life and quality are paramount.
The concept For the average home breeder the stock and trade rearing tank is something alone the lines of what Joyce Wilkerson lays out in her book. While this is a viable solution, it has a lot of issues, that can result in either a lot of work for the breeder or lots a failures because of inherent "problems". The problems with a self contained rearing tanks... 1) There is no active filtration of nitrogen cycle pollutants. Ammonia and nitrate can lead to larval losses and malformations and misbarring. 2) Flow is difficult to control, especially in regards to keeping the nest moving prior to hatching. Flow issues also results in larval damage and clustering of live foods. So these two problems contribute to a fair amount of the failures in the home breeding setup. Another way No modern salt water tank would be caught without a sump and significant filtration. So why on earth are we trying to rear clownfish in a closed single tank solution without filtration? Because we are a cheap lot for the most part I guess... So here is a quick summary of the system... 1) Large sump with filtration. One could use LR or bio balls. Just keep in mind that LR can have lots of nasty little hitch hikers that could cause larva problems, i.e. meals on fins. 2) A overhead header tank with good live critters, like pods, shrimps, etc. 3) The rearing tanks that are gravity fed from the header tank and draining into the sump before being returned to the header tank. This addresses our problems with a single tank system. 1) We no longer are faced with fighting pollutants from the nitrogen cycle. We can with proper filtration and water changes maintain 0ppm on all of these, which is MUCH more ideal than the ever varying levels and frequent water changes required in a single tank system. 2) With a gravity feed of water, we can very precisely control the amount and direction of the flow in the tank. Directed water flow is by far superior to air bubbles beating eggs. It is also MUCH easier to get adjusted right. But we do introduce some new problems... New problems to deal with Let me start by saying that IMO/IME these are easier to overcome than the problems we are addressing... 1) We need to retain the live foods in the rearing tank without them getting washing out of the rearing chambers. We can do this by making a large surface area "drain cover" out of 53µ screen and that we can adjust the surface area, thereby adjusting the drain rate. 2) We need to move more water than the rearing tank chambers can handle with a screened drain. So we have to have a overflow system in the header tank to drain to the sump as well. This is not too hard to pull off, but can be a little tricky to get adjusted right. 3) We need to keep algae in the rearing tanks to insure the rots and other live foods remain gut packed. We address with a metered pump that will release small amounts of live or paste algaes at set intervals. Tips and Tricks 1) I used 3/4" blukheads with a threaded inside. 3/4" threaded nippled to a 3/4" x 1 1/2" coupling. Then a piece of 1 1/2" with two wide slots cut into it on the table saw, to a 1 1/2" cap. Over the slots I hot glued the 53µ screen. I was able to adjust the surface area exposed to the water by using different height nipples. 2) You will need to change out the screens once or twice a day for cleaning. Make several for each rearing chamber. 3) I had custom made rearing tanks and header tank made. Each was 6' long and width and depth matched a standard 55g tank. I divided the rearing tank into six chambers and the header tank into 3 chambers. 4) In the header tank I kept shrimps and pods. I used LED moonlights to attract the shrimp larva to the overflow from which I fed the rearing tanks. 5) I used black acrylic on the sides, back, bottom and dividers with clear fronts on the rearing tanks. 6) Lock line and the various attachments are very handy in getting the flow right from the header tanks. 7) No skimmer, as it will remove your algae. Last notes 1) I am no longer actively breeding, and no longer have the majority of my equipment, e.g. the system above is gone, so no pictures. 2) I am a busy person, if I don't respond to your question or comment in this thread, hang in there I will get to it sometime or another. 3) Do not PM me with questions, they will be deleted without response. If I am going to "talk" about something on RC, it is going to be for everyone to see. |
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#2
03/24/2007, 10:19 PM
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Great ideas. It could potentially be pulled off on a smaller scale for the less serious breeder, right?
Say 5 or 10 gal header, 20 gal sump on a 20 gal rearing tank?
__________________
-Tyler Check the red house. |
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#3
03/24/2007, 10:23 PM
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Very great information JHarman. Your experience really helps.
__________________
Should never have made an avatar bet on the FLA/UGA game this year. Big 10 is a joke OSU is a joke Anyone that thinks the SEC isn't the best conference is a joke GO GATORS! |
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#4
03/24/2007, 10:37 PM
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Longer answer, I don't think so. You want a small(er) rearing system to keep the food concentrated for best hunting, i.e. 20g rearing tank is a big no, no. A rearing tank can produce a lot more pollutants than you are thinking it will, so you need a significant sump to hold the filtration. You also need a significant header tanks for pressure and to keep enough room for your critters to thrive. It might be possible to use the smallest MJ pumps to suck from the header tank and feed the rearing tanks, which would somewhat reduce the header tank size... I think it is possible to scale down, but not a lot more than say 4' tanks. It scales up easy too. |
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#5
03/24/2007, 10:42 PM
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I hope that by the time my Percs start breeding I can figure out exactly WTH you are talking about, but I followed pretty good for a newb and this is some very good info. Thanks for sharing J.
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#7
03/24/2007, 10:45 PM
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#9
03/25/2007, 12:13 AM
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From the header tank to the rearing tanks, what size pipe goes to each of the tanks, 3/4" also?
For the header tank were the dividers flow through? How much space between each level did you leave? |
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#10
03/25/2007, 07:31 AM
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Nice work!
__________________
Rod Buehler Biodiversity matters because all life on earth has a right to exist. |
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#11
03/25/2007, 01:13 PM
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While the 1/4" was OK for the initial night and the first couple of days, it was difficult to get a good defuse flow on the nest and later when you want more flow it is just not capable of delivering it. With the 3/4" with the flare tip I was able to move the outlet back away from the nest resulting in better egg motion without beating them to death. I would significantly reduce flow first thing in the AM after a hatching. BTW, I got a lot better hatch rates for the first night, with the majority of the nest hatching the majority of the eggs the first night. The rearing tanks where made from solid sheet and nothing was ever done for flow between tanks. That would be problematic as you go thru the food cycles with the fry. I used a 7' shelving system with three shelves. The header was on the top shelf, rearing in the middle and the sump on the bottom. Top of the rearing tank was apx 2.5' from the bottom of the header tank. After having done this, a couple of thoughts on the header tank overflow and gravity feed lines... If I had to do it again, I would change my header tank design. I would build an external overflow that was the same height or nearly the same height as the header tank to insure more head pressure in the feed lines. Keep in mind that one of the benefits of this system is the critters in the header tank delivering their fry as food for clowns/horses. So you have to come up with some way to move the larva to the bottom of the overflow now too, likely just a strip of LEDs along the bottom of a clear overflow would do it. |
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#12
03/26/2007, 01:09 PM
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JHardman,
I know this isn't exaclty what you aer posting about, but it does seem like a viable way to address what you list as the first problem with captive breeding tanks... "1) There is no active filtration of nitrogen cycle pollutants. Ammonia and nitrate can lead to larval losses and malformations and misbarring." After spending some time in the DIY forum and reading through the The Ultimate DIY Rocks!, I immediately though about using this method to aid in the rearing process. I don't remember seeing you talk about it, so if you did I appologize because I missed it, are three of your four sides blacked out? In that thread specifically a few posts talk about creating a custom rockwork which fits the back wall of the tank. In doing this, one could theoretically cast a mold of three sides of their tank and seed it with LR. Now this process would obviously take a few months to establish, however for somebody like myself who isn't close this process yet, it does seem like it would be worth my time. Please keep in mind that I am not trying to contradict your ideas or methods in any way. I simply value your input as a breeder and feel you would be one of the better people to comment on whether or not something like this would provide sufficient filtration. |
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#13
03/26/2007, 02:22 PM
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JHardman,
Very nice discussion topic. It sounds like the system might be kind of a pain to get set up, but once running would make things easier. Kevin
__________________
NCAA Division 1 Championship Leaders: UCLA: 100 Stanford: 94 Southern California: 84 Oklahoma State: 48 Arkansas: 43 LSU: 40 Go PAC 10! |
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#14
03/26/2007, 04:10 PM
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#15
03/26/2007, 04:44 PM
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You're probably right that we're underestimating the ammonia created, and after reading Wilkerson's chapter on rearing more thoroughly, I can see how a small-scale wouldn't really work..
But wouldn't the live rock "walls" at the very least be helpful in reducing/controlling ammonia? Or perhaps be useful in reducing the size of sump required?
__________________
-Tyler Check the red house. |
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#16
03/26/2007, 07:56 PM
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If you look thru this thread, Corriander has a prop system using the same concept. Except the header tank is flow through and the dividers are clears:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1002984 |
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#17
03/26/2007, 10:22 PM
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I can also see that in order to have enough filtration created by the LR to convert most of the waste being produced I would need a single rearing tank so large that it would probably stretch my larva food supply so thin, that losses would occur simply from starvation. Since I wasn't around when you were in the prime of your breeding do you mind commenting on what type of success rates you had before and after you got this thing running? Also if you have enough time do you mind commenting on a few adjustments you made to this system that helped increase your success-rate? I ask that simply for those of us who would try to take your idea and tweak it for our own personal preferences. I would hate to try something that you found had detrimental effects and learn the hard way. Please forgive the questions as I know you posted that this isn't intended for newbs like myself, however I already know that I am one of those people that will give the rearing thing a try once I am lucky enough to get my "kids" to start spawning. I'm just attempting to pick up different tips and tricks along the way so that I can be as best prepared as possible once that day finally comes. Besides I wouldn't be so glued to this forum if I didn't truely enjoy learning what the vets like yourself have to offer. Thanks in advance for everything you have and will continue to give us. -Rob |
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#18
03/27/2007, 07:27 AM
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I like the idea, but I wonder how often that screen would get clogged. Did you run this system for several years? months? Wouldn't the rots just get packed against the screen or are we talking really slow flow. I have wondered about this same issue as I have a broodstock system and growout but no larval system. Just freestanding 10g larval tanks. My solution is waterchanges and moving the fish at about 3-4 weeks into the growout after the live foods are gone. What does ORA do with the larval stages?
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#19
03/27/2007, 11:21 AM
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#20
03/27/2007, 11:23 AM
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I ran with this for about two years. |
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#21
03/27/2007, 11:32 AM
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The hardest part of rearing clowns is the nest prior to hatching and feeding high quality foods. It is no different with this system. So all the little tweaks where to provide better for each. The was a lot of playing around getting the flow on the nests right, lots of little tweaks getting the algae and rot mix right. |
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#22
03/31/2007, 07:11 PM
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I like your insight into this and I have a few questions to clarify the plumbing set up: You say above:
" With a gravity feed of water, we can very precisely control the amount and direction of the flow in the tank. Directed water flow is by far superior to air bubbles beating eggs. It is also MUCH easier to get adjusted right." and then you say: "I had custom made rearing tanks and header tank made. Each was 6' long and width and depth matched a standard 55g tank. I divided the rearing tank into six chambers and the header tank into 3 chambers." Does the three chamber header tank have "plain water" in one chamber which then goes to the eggs? Do the others have Phyto, rots or brine shrimp in them which then are plumbed to go to the Larvae then babies? In other words what is the set up for the header tanks to flow to what when? Or do you move the tank contents to different "banks" of six for different reciving from the header tanks? Would a specially made 6' tank as you describe work with a removeable 12" wide sloped (say 60 degrees ) 53 micron screen across the back of each +/- 10 gallon segment with an external overflow? One could then hose/back flush into the tank rotifers that are against the screen. Yet be able to slide out the screen if necessary. Is there an inherent problem by doing this? (dead rots or what? ) Where do you get the 53 micron screen that is not metal? Thanx again for bringing this methodology forward. |
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#23
03/31/2007, 08:42 PM
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 If I was to do it again, I would plumb the header tank to a large diameter header pipe chamber. Like a 4" or 6" PVC placed horizontally below the header and above the rearing tank. Letting all header tanks drain into the chamber and not worry about what critters might be contained. Or if critter selection was important, then I would use a full height external overflow box with LEDs to attract larva from the critters. Quote:
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#24
04/01/2007, 03:13 PM
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Thanx
"I tried, unsuccessfully in keeping the critters in the header tank separated. My intention was to keep mysid shrimp, pods and ornamental shrimp. I never tried to keep a population of brine or rots. The only ones that stayed where they were put was the big shrimp. If I was to do it again, I would plumb the header tank to a large diameter header pipe chamber. Like a 4" or 6" PVC placed horizontally below the header and above the rearing tank. Letting all header tanks drain into the chamber and not worry about what critters might be contained. Or if critter selection was important, then I would use a full height external overflow box with LEDs to attract larva from the critters." So then if you did this, then there is no reason to have a header tank with three compartments? |
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#25
04/01/2007, 04:14 PM
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While all the critters ended up mixed after a few months, it is still possible to "clean up" the partitions to restore the critter mix. |
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