New rule question

[GreshamH]

This question is for Carlos who posted the new sticky re: commercial set-ups not being allowed to be posted.

Question: Since commercial people usually have the most money and spend quite a bit researching what they've done, why would you not allow them to post system pictures? I understand the showing of corals if you're selling corals, but no system pics? Would we be at this point if people like Dick Perrin didn't show of his systems for all to see?

[danskim]

I agree. I think I'd have a lot to learn from seeing system setups.
Is it because RC wants sponsorship from the coral farmers instead of being potential free advertisements?

[Bradly88]

"Is it because RC wants sponsorship from the coral farmers instead of being potential free advertisements?"

I think that is exactly the reason! I agree about the no free advertising policy but i also agree with you guys and see no problem about showing system setups! as long as they dint show any pics of coral/fish they are selling i see no reason why they cant!

[compulou]

Originally posted by Bradly88
"Is it because RC wants sponsorship from the coral farmers instead of being potential free advertisements?"

I think that is exactly the reason! I agree about the no free advertising policy but i also agree with you guys and see no problem about showing system setups! as long as they dint show any pics of coral/fish they are selling i see no reason why they cant!

"Here, here" well said.

[VikeBron]

I am a bit confused also. Mine is a little different scenario. I posted pics of my setup in my basement months ago when I had not gone completely nuts(although that's still up for discussion). Within the last few months, I have decided to open a lfs as well as a full e-commerce website. I just got a pm from Carlos warning me against commercial posting and putting my account on "probation". At the time of the posting of my setup, I was in no way anything but a hobbiest, just an out of control reefer.
Must be nice to be able to retroactively go back and enforce rules that were not even there to begin with.
I actually inquired, recieved the info and had planned on advertising on RC when I got up and going. Makes me think twice about giving $500+ a month to an outfit who does this.
Want to make a new rule, fine, we will abide. Going back and saying what you did 6 months ago is now against the rule so you are on "probation" is bull.

[bossman47]

Half the reason I come on here is to see people building their frag systems (whether its a small tank in your basement or a full blown greenhouse). I see no problem with people showing off their systems and helping to further this hobby and peoples knowledge. They say it is OK for commercial people to share their wisdom but I personally can learn a whole lot more by looking at a picture than I can from reading something about how to set it up. If people are not showing pictures of the fish/corals they are selling then where is the problem? I have never even seen anyone talk about the "business" side of their farms. They are just trying to share their experiences with the rest of us for our education. It is because of these people that I am inspired to try my own hand at fragging and wanting to build my own system someday. I don't know about everyone else but this is part of what draws me into this hobby. Sorry about ranting but it just really pi$#@d me off when i went onto a thread I really enjoyed to find out he could no longer continue it.

[jerryz]

I agree also. This was a picture of how people had set up their farming operations. It also provided a place to go and ask questions about how those operations worked. It was educational. If that also worked to the farmers benefit that was good as long as it wasn't abused. And for the most part I have to say I didn't really see what went on in this forum as abuse. pictures of coral growth along with discussions of how it was achieved are far from abuse.

Behaviours like this only create opportunity for competitors to carve out alternative forums. But perhaps RC has become they no longer care about losing customers and the resulting lost ad revenue.

[Mr James]

Why have a coral propagation forum?? I was harvesting phytoplankton for my rotifers and warned not to sell any. This conversation scares me a little bit because I would love to learn a bunch about coral farming, but not get in hot water with RC. I really don't want to open an LFS, I just want lots of tanks to research different growth rates, species, habitats, etc... It's sort of like the Lounge, I just stay clear of this forum as well as the Lounge.

[jessp]

I think the problem in this forum is that people are like "hey guys i'm starting a coral farm". Then their location is listed and they are probably sent a ton of pm's about people wanting to buy corals. So basically it is like advertising themselves w/o advertising themselves.

[cayars]

This was a very poor decision on RCs part if you ask me. To much pre-active censorship going on these days.

Just because a "commercial entity" makes a post does not equal a "commercial post".

The only people getting hurt by this are those here to learn, not the "commercial entities". They will move on to other forums where such information is wanted, shared and valued.

My Two Cents,
Carlo

[jessp]

the only problem is that most of the threads here these days don't involve how to frag corals they are look at my system.

[WarDaddy]

Fragging is well documented all over the place. Setting systems up designed to do the growing is another story. Try to build a series of tanks, and set up the necessary water conditioning, topoff, workbenches, tools, packing area, etc, that you need to have a farm, WOW.

There are great people here willing to share their experiences about how they got their setup running, what they did right and wrong. Pictures say 1000 words, and can convey much information that words will never get across.

By limiting the pictures form people who are working on getting it right, we are going to limit the exposure of people to good quality information. that limit will then reduce sucess rates and make coral small scale coral farming that much harder to accomplish.

Our industry is just years away from a prohibition of exports. What then? Without guys farming we will have only hobby tanks to keep the industry alive.

A rule like this is against that I think RC is all about. RC is about the free exchange of information related to Salt Water Aquariums. To say hey you are making money at this hobby, you can not post a picture is a little backward. It should be you can post a picture if your pictures are being posted to help the understanding of coral propagation, techniques and systems. If it is look ath the cool rare corals I have, yea, block those.

my thoughts.

[aquarius77]

I hope that RC never forgets that it is the members that make this community possible.

The lack of response to this thread and recent developments on here, im starting to wonder if they care at all. It seems to me that they belive this site is big enough to "move on" and censor just about everybody, be you commercial or just addicted. I belive that it has alot to do with sponsers dollars. Is RC is a cash cow just like the overpriced retailers? I would have thought not.

[GreshamH]

Originally posted by WarDaddy
Fragging is well documented all over the place. Setting systems up designed to do the growing is another story. Try to build a series of tanks, and set up the necessary water conditioning, topoff, workbenches, tools, packing area, etc, that you need to have a farm, WOW.

There are great people here willing to share their experiences about how they got their setup running, what they did right and wrong. Pictures say 1000 words, and can convey much information that words will never get across.

By limiting the pictures form people who are working on getting it right, we are going to limit the exposure of people to good quality information. that limit will then reduce sucess rates and make coral small scale coral farming that much harder to accomplish.

Our industry is just years away from a prohibition of exports. What then? Without guys farming we will have only hobby tanks to keep the industry alive.

A rule like this is against that I think RC is all about. RC is about the free exchange of information related to Salt Water Aquariums. To say hey you are making money at this hobby, you can not post a picture is a little backward. It should be you can post a picture if your pictures are being posted to help the understanding of coral propagation, techniques and systems. If it is look ath the cool rare corals I have, yea, block those.

my thoughts.

My thoughts as well

[Qwiv]

RC use to be a place of value.
We use to have some really great 'experts' running forums.
No restrictions on what to post. Now, RC is a mess from a hobbiest point of view. That is why you will no longer see the I support RC logo next to my name.

Showing pictures of comercial prop systems should be the gold standard of any website in a hobby struggling to remove themselves from wild collection, but now that hobbiests can impact the profits of sponsors this website is at financial odds with its own mission statement. In a battle between Ideals and Money, Money always wins.

[redox]

it still is ,dont give up on this forum. You dont have too sell stuff here just learn. Heck i dont have deep pockets(I would if it wasnt for this hobby) I have the desire to see home grown corals. The best thing you can do is grow them yourself and then you wont be at the mercy of retailers. trade is better than selling in the long run because it will come back to you if you so desire it to.

[muzz]

cant learn without seeing how it is done. Pictures can be worth more than anything, a pic is worth a thousand words. I would rather ;learn from people who have done it and succeeded, then trying ten different systems, and blowing tens of thousands of dollars, but rc does not see it that way anymore.

As others have said, a forum is only as good as the people that post there. and there are many other good forums out there on the net. Marine depot forum, uberfrags, etc.....check em out.

[raaden]

Here here!! WarDaddy

I also would like a little bit more information about this new post. I have put quite a bit of time into trying to get information documented in my threads so that others can benefit from it, but now I am a bit leary of posting anything more because I don't want to spend the time if it is all going to disappear.

If it just a matter of not wanting the forum to turn into for sale board I can completely understand and appreciate that completely, but I fear that is not the case.

If it is about not angering the sponsors I can also understand (not so much agree with) that, but what about us paying readers. Another thing is that most of the people posting seriously are not trying to sell to people on the forum and if they sell at all are going to do wholesale, and help out the sponsors by supplying the products that they sell.

I guess I am not sure of what sort of judgement is going into this decision and what the guidelines are. If it is possible this should be added to the post so that us that are trying to play by the rules can ensure that we do not have any problems.

As the rule is stated I am not sure I should continue my threads and they are something I have recieved hundreds if not thousands of emails of thanks on. I felt like I was providing a service to others trying the same things, and all the while driving value to RC by the number of page views they are getting (>25k).

Please clarify this and let us know what you expect from us.

[GrowDammit]

Well Said Raaden....that is why we will NOT be sharing our information on our new Sexual reproduction in Euphyllia spp. project on RC. Without pictures, the thread will be worthless.

Instead we made the decision to take it to the new marine breeders.org site, where they don't care if it's commercial or not. They just want to get the infromation out there on these advancements in propagation efforts.

[redox]

grow you must be the posterchild and now i see rc's point

[JCTewks]

LOL

[lereefer]

[violation]

[BrianD]

Originally posted by danskim

Is it because RC wants sponsorship from the coral farmers instead of being potential free advertisements?

The same rule would apply whether the poster was a sponsor or not. No one is permitted to use the site for free advertising.

Why all the negativity? Not one of the moderators or staff have any vested interest in the finances of the board. Not one of the moderators or staff would go out of their way to protect a sponsor, and frankly most of us couldn't name a third of the sponsors. We attempt to combat the commercial activity on the board to ensure an unbiased exchange of ideas, and there is no doubt that the commercial area is a difficult one. Instead of assuming the board is out to harm members in some way, how about suggesting alternatives to the policies you see in place?

[BrianD]

Originally posted by GrowDammit
Well Said Raaden....that is why we will NOT be sharing our information on our new Sexual reproduction in Euphyllia spp. project on RC. Without pictures, the thread will be worthless.

Instead we made the decision to take it to the new marine breeders.org site, where they don't care if it's commercial or not. They just want to get the infromation out there on these advancements in propagation efforts.

You have every right to patronize a board that embraces commercial activity. By the same token, please respect this board's mission to choose a different path.

[Boydbob]

Interesting, to be sure, but there is a better way.

Why not allow "advertisers" to post tips, tank setups, and photos on a forum section specifically dedicated to advertisers.

no outright advertising allowed, ie, it has to be info RC considers helpful - delete inactive threads - no "replies" by poster.

Might be an idea.

Boyd