First Timer with some ideas

[iairj84]

Well I've posted in a few of the other threads and it was recommended that I just start my own thread to bounce some ideas off you guys. So here it goes....

THIS IS KINDA LONG.... DISCLAIMER javascript:smilie('')
stormtrooper

Like it says in my experience I have 10 or so years of freshwater experience. Being only 21 most of those years were when I was younger, but I was always required to do the maintenance and everything on my own.

I currently have a 55 gallon cichlid tank that has a number of yellow labs as well as yellow tail acei in it right now. It has an aquascape to it with sand and rocks and is very basic but a fun tank to watch.
I also have a 20 gallon lightly planted tank. I made a DIY fixture composed of compact flourescent bulbs in the 6500 range that are perfect for plant growth. This tank has your typical community fish in it as well. I also have a 20 gallon fry tank that houses some swordtail fry at the moment. I'm looking to move these or get rid of these fry once they've reached maturity.

I also have 2 10 gallon tanks, one I use as a hospital/quarantine tank and it's setup without substrate so as to be easily cleaned. The other 10 is a shrimp only tank that houses a breeding colony of red cherry shrimp. They are soooo interesting to watch and I can't reccomend them any higher. If anyone has a freshwater tank and would like some I would be glad to share some as my population is getting kinda outta hand These shrimp are in a sandy bottom tank with some plants growing as well that they like to graze on.

In similar fashion but on another spectrum I have a 29 gallon turtle tank that houses an adorable juvenile red eared slider turtle. He's about 1.5 inches and is so cute. He shares the tank with some feeder guppies and is entertained by chasing them on a regular basis.

I have a 1.5 gallon betta tank as well.


I change about 25% of the water in all of these tanks about once a week. I have a DIY python setup to do water changes and it makes things easy on me. These tanks require hardly any maintenance at all and I've grown to love this aspect although I know saltwater will be another story.


So here's my ambitions as a saltwater keeper....

I've wanted a saltwater tank for the last few years and have always thought it would be too much trouble or too much money... I have since learned that once you get a good system set up the maintenance isn't too bad. I don't mind adding water on a daily or near daily basis and the money won't be a huge issue as I plan on taking it slow and buying it all slowly as to not feel the hit as hard on the pocketbook (I am 21 and in college you know )

My initial plans were to buy a 28 gallon cube and get it all in one shot. This is still an option but I've thought about going other routes as well. I don't have the space for anything too big but I want it to be at least a 20+ gallon tank as I know the sensitivity to changing levels is seen much higher in smaller tanks.

I've thought about converting the 20 gallon fry tank to a saltwater tank, and still might.. Although my biggest hope is that I can find a disgruntled fish keeper who has a 28 gallon cube with the rock and sand and wants to get rid of it cheap (who wouldnt like that ) I am in no hurry to get the tank setup as I would rather take the time to know what I'm doing instead of rushing into it. If anyone knows someone trying to get rid of said setup let me know!

My initial thoughts are to go with the hardier fish from the beginning, your typical clowns more than likely, I especially like their personalities and their colors. I will also go with easy to care for soft corals and compatible specimens for my ligthing as well as tank. I find it really silly to pay a lot of money when I'm first starting, and that's why the frag exchange and raffle sounds so appealing to me.

So that's kinda where I'm at ATM... I know it's not a set plan that I have setup right now but I hope to have something going by around christmas time. I spend hours that I should be studying on Reef Central as well as another fish forum I frequent more for freshwater just reading different journals as well as reccomendations as products go.

[BBishop]

Here's something to compare to. I started at ten also, but I'm at least twice your age. It's hard to belive anyone would stick with a hobby that long.

Anyhow I have a 20g tank that is 37 years old, it's seen a lot of changes over the years. Right now I am the most satisfied I have ever been with it. My sand bed 3" deep, there's about 30 lbs of rock. A seio for water movement and a CPR hang on skimmer with a overflow box. And it's all lit by a single 250 watt, 14K metal halide lamp. I use Salifert buffer, alk, calcium and magnesium.
I use only ro/di and top off a quart to a gallon a day and dose alk and calcium daily. In my tank I have one fish, 3 or 4 shrimp, nassarius snails, a giant teakwood snail, a couple of hermit crabs, and over 50 different types of sps corals. You can not put your hand down to the bottom of my tank without breaking something.

Point being, my setup is very simple. All my parameters are perfect with 0 nitrate, 0 phosphates. I don't feed my tank except once in a great while. And I have awsome coral growth and color.

I kept the cost down by buying a used lighting system. Overall value if all equipment was new, about $500 not including corals.

[Twisted]

Sounds like you know what you want Iairj84.

As far as the fry, and the cherry shrimp, you won't get a lot for them, but if you want to get rid of them a couple of store owners and a couple of store employees attend the Chico reef club meetings that might be willing to take them off your hands.
Perhaps when you have a tank, you could just trade in your over stock fish and shrimp towards salt, sand, rock, corals, etc... Might cut your cost a tad bit.

When you get to that point of stocking the tankm you just come to the club meetings, and go to the tank viewings afterwards and see if anyone has anything you want in large quantity, maybe they would be willing to frag a peice for you.

When it comes to finding a tank, it depends on how far you are willing to travel, I could have sworn someone had a 29 gallon oceanic bio cube in grass valley for sale awhile back, and then if you watch the MARS forum for sac you will occasionally see some tanks pop up.

[iairj84]

Thanks to both for the input. the more I think about it the more I like the idea of using one of the 20's I have. I could spend the money I would've spent on the cube for a nice Halide and HOB overflow. I know you can do a lot in a small space as I've seen what some people can do in the pico type tanks. If I was to find a cube for a reasonable price (presumably with rock and sand included) I would probably jump on it just do to the ease and the fact that LR is $5-6+ a pound.

I'm not really trying to get much if anything for the fry and shrimp and would be more than happy to share with any of the other hobbiests. I would much rather see them go to a good home than to just give them to the fish store and have them make some money off of them. If they were to give credit I would consider that as well but It would be to others in the hobby first... Free with the hopes that when my tank gets going they may send a frag my way

I will definately be looking to the club meetings for some help with stocking my tank. I will hope their will be some beginner frags that wouldn't be hard to keep. I don't want to jump into something spending thousands of dollars from the get go without being exactly sure it's right for me. I know I love fish keeping but reef tanks are another story.

[Tylt33]

You might want to check out marinedepot.com . Right now they have the Aquapod 12g with Metal Halide lights for $149, which is cheaper then you'll find the lighting alone. I'm pretty sure it's a price mistake, as the tank itself is normally $150 or so, and the lights run about $230. A little smaller then you're looking for, but it's a complete setup.

[Twisted]

That is quite a price! too bad they didn't do that to the 28 gallon I would have ordered one myself!

[iairj84]

Wow! That is a REALLY good deal! I wish it was a bigger one though however. That is a killer price though. For me 12 would probably be a little to small to start out with. I need as much of a buffer as I can get. Man I really do need to think about that though. It's ideal and small, and affordable for that. I wish my LFS would match that price!

[kinghokus420]

theres a couple VERY simple, low tech tanks here that are very nice. the tank from last week comes to mind. felixs' 125 also. my point is, that it can be done and done well for little $$. if you are even close to handy DIY can save mucho $. i built my whole shindig, fuge sump stand etc.. (everything except the 135g tank itself) for a few hundred bucks. as far as stocking? i dont have a single thing in my own tank that i would consider difficult or even moderately difficult yet im very happy with it apart from the HA. plus a solid 50% of the corals are frags from locals. maybe 10$ apiece at the meetings. the biggest thing is knowledge. learn as much as you can BEFORE doing anything. you're doing the right thing by studying and asking questions first.

[kinghokus420]

btw are you from chico? theres a great bunch here that are always willing to lend a hand, or opinion.

[iairj84]

Thanks for the input as well...
Yes I'm from Chico, born and raised!

I would say I'm pretty handy and would much rather build or make something than buy something and have it be sub-par. Some things like tanks are better left for the experts. I will initially setup my tank and put it on one of my tank racks where it will be with my freshwater tanks. During these first couple months I will probably begin to build a nice stand for it. I will leave room and space for a sump and things underneath but won't initially have a sump setup.

I will for sure buy most of my frags from locals. I love supporting the LFS as well but I would just assume help another hobbiest with the money. The LFS's get plenty of my money anyways

[kinghokus420]

do yourself a favor and set up a sump and/or fuge at the beginning. it will save a ton of headache later on. glass drilling is easy if thats what youre worried about. plus all that extra water volume can do no harm.

[iairj84]

It's not so much that I'm worried about the glass drilling part of things. I was planning a HOB fuge for that. I guess I could use a 10 for a sump.

[iairj84]

Hey does anyone have any live rock they would like to get rid of? I've been waiting for a killer deal on craiglist but none have come up so far. Their was a guy selling some for $3/lb shipped a while back but I can't find it.

Also does anyone have a R/O setup that wouldn't mind sharing some water. I would kick back some $$ here and there for filters.

[boviac]

One thing DIY builders have discovered after the fact (I like to follow build threads here) is that once the stand is built and tank is set, there isn't enough clearance to get in the custom made sump. Granted you're planing on doing something on a much smaller magnitude than some of the builds here. I think there's still an active 29 gal build on the DIY forum. Anyway, if you're interested in DIY stuff I recommend checking out that area.

As for killer deals - yes, the come and go if you're willing to stay around in this hobby long enough. Some go by lightning fast so stay sharp. I've seen things go on the MARS forum in less than two minutes duirng a weekday when we're all 'supposed' to be working!!! However, it never hurts to ask. Also, I doesn't hurt to ask your LFS. Sometimes, if you're going to stock up a tank w/ LR and say they need to make an order too. They'll order in the whole load and you get the pick of the pack. Don't be afraid to let your LFS know your plans and see what they can do to stay in the loop. Many people that are successful in this hobby are the type that like to do things themselves. They know this and it only makes sense to give them a chance. Good Luck!

[boviac]

That being said - don't be a NOOB and pick your LFS's brains only to go out and buy those things on the internet. Those ethics clearly hurt our LFSs and ultimately ourselves with local availability.

Ok stepping down now. I know nothing anyone has stated here has warrented that rant but I just wanted to say that - for that I thank you.

[iairj84]

Thanks for the comments boviac and don't be afraid of using that soapbox every now and again, I don't mind....

It's looking like I'm going to be using a 20 gallon high and a 10 gallon sump/fuge. I will build the Stand (eventually) to have a shelf and cutouts for the tubing. Like I said DIY is what I like to do and will do the majority of it myself. I like to buy from my LFS as much as possible also. I do buy some things online, but that's generally because the LFS doesnt carry it, or it's a lot cheaper online. I always buy livestock, food, bulbs, tanks, from the LFS as it makes sense to buy those there.

I don't generally rely on the LFS for their knowledge anyways as I would generally prefer to find it online. Especially when I had a LFS (nameless) tell my best friend he could easily add a pair of Albino Oscars to his 40 gallon community tank... Generally NOT a good idea at all if you guys know about freshwater.

When it comes to buying 20+ LB's of live rock I would prefer not to spend $7-8 on it... That's just me. I know stores sometimes run specials and what not and I could probably get a deal on it through one of them (I probably will) but I figured I would send out a feeler.

[boviac]

iairj84,

Sounds like a great plan. Some LFS advice is humorous at best. Search (if you can) for a thread called LFS Employee or something like that and you'll hear about some of the stories LFS people have to say.

But of course, it doesn't hurt to ask. Also I realize now that my previous posts here, maybe by some, seem to be directed to you and that was not my intention but instead a generalized statement - I am glad you took it as such.

I will admit when I first started and bought three rocks at an LFS for my 29 gal reef startup and walked out with about $140 less, I had to do several reality checks that I just spent how much on rocks?!?!

Oh Yeah, I have a RO/DI unit but again I think you can get RO or DI water from LFSs cheap too. PM me for more info.

[Underwaterparadise]

DIY is usually cheaper (if you know what your doing) and sometimes more rewarding. It sounds like you have a good plan and with the routine you were keeping with the FW you should have no problem with a SW tank.

My advise is to try and not cut corners the first time or you end up losing more time and $$ in the long run. If need be take your time setting it up and buy each component when you can afford to. Also don't take just the first thing you hear or read, do some research and come to your own conclusion based off that.

[iairj84]

Thanks both for the recommendations, I didn't take it as a directed statement towards me when talking about the LFS situation. I plan on skipping CF or T5 altogether assuming I can get a good deal on a halide or maybe a combo unit with the halide and actinic bulbs both in one. I don't plan on building a canopy as I feel their are more work to try and get proper ventilation than they are worth for looks. for some reason I prefer the looks of the fixture above the tank without the canopy anyways. I could easily build a canopy if need be. The stand should be easy to build as it will only need to occomodate roughly >300lbs on top. The shelving in the middle would need to occomodate >150 on the shelf for the sump/fuge.

I've definitely done a lot of DIY projects with my freshwater tanks. and I dont mind drilling or cutting glass for the overflow or bulkheads. Which is better to go with? the overflow or the bulkhead route? I would initially drill for the sump and cap them off or make it so a pump would pump from one hole straight back to the other for flow, I believe this is called a closed loop setup? like I think I mentioned I wont initially use the sump until the stand gets built and at that point I would start adding the frags after I get the sump in... Unless you guys have another idea.

The reason for not using the sump initially is I don't have the room on my rack for it at least right now. From what I understand I shouldn't NEED it if I'm running the live rock and live sand, cycled and have a very low bio load.

[Underwaterparadise]

You don't need a sump but if you are going to drill the tank do it before you fill it up with rock and sand. IME it is more difficult to add a sump later then to just wait until the stand is built and do it all at the same time. Also be very wary of heat issues with a halide on a tank that small. You may need to add fans blowing on the water in the sump. You may be ok though if you go with a 150w. I run a 70w HQI on a 22g nano here at the store and have been thinking of upgrading to a 150w. Since the top is open now I have not had any heat issues.

IMO the overflow is better. With just the bulk head you get a lot of slurping noise that is hard to control and the over flow helps take the oil slick (built up nutrients)off the top of the water.

[iairj84]

Thanks,
Is it easiest just to cut out from the glass or use a u-tube type system?

[Underwaterparadise]

depends on the tank. If the glass is too thin then more then likely it will crack or shatter when drilled. I prefer drilled over HOB. Also if you don't all ready have a diamond bit they can be a lil $$$.

[iairj84]

I've got diamond dremel bits I could use. It's a standard 20H AGA tank I will be using. Nothing special about the tank.

[boviac]

iairj84.

I too plan on using dremel or zip tool diamond bits. However, I've heard (and seen videos) some smaller tanks including 20's have all sides including the bottom tempered. tempered glass = do not drill. That being said I've heard it can be done if the tempering wasn't done that effectively (i.e. not to stressed in that localized area) - no way to know though. So I suppose you should do this anytime you drill a tank: Anticipate having to replace it if things go south. Good luck with this project.

I agree with Rob above. drilled anytime over HOB overflows if possible. There was a rule for a while with HOB - those that have had failures and those that will. I personally have had mine set up for five years now and still no failures ( ) . I also agree with Rob about doing the hardware setup all at once. Too much a pain to do it later. Plus the one thing a reef aquarium thrives on is stability.

[iairj84]

Well I would rather go the safe route as I would prefer not to replace the glass or tank. I might take it by one of the glass shops and have them drill it for me as they have the right bits and it's not worth my time to fuss with the glass too much. I spend enough time tinkering with the other things.