old clams getting some type of disease from new clams?

[SSweet1]

James it seems we both got a bad batch and now are suffering through this. I am getting a 280 tank this week!!! I have been waiting on this tank for 2 years!! I was planning to combine the 125 and 75 into this tank but now I am afraid I will be stuck with this protozoan infected water. I am so discouraged about this I dont even care about the $180 down the drain but I really didnt want my original clams to get this and now I cant get clams anymore without risking them to this. I sure hope they get a solid cure and I also think the word should get out that this may happen and that it is a risk you are taking. I wonder if others had this happen and didnt know anything about this and just assumed it was something they did. I also want to know if I remove everything and dont have any clams in the tank will this protozoan die? I dont think so because they are suggesting that it may be present in the water to start with however like you and I we had older clams for years just fine it wasnt until the new clams were introduced that the problem occurred. Very frustrating to say the least. Carrie

[NewSchool04]

This is a shame. My 2" Maxima has it and it seems that this problem is not a secret. I spent $50.00 on this clam, I like it a lot and now it seems doomed. Not only that, I have a 3 year old Crocea that has now been exposed to this protozoan.
Still, clams are being sold left and right to people that have no idea that this new disease is floating around the clam community. Especially ORA clams grown in the Pacific, Marshall Is. I believe. These clams are still being sold to unaware aquarists for a lot of money without fair warning. This is not right.

[isseym328]

I'm still not quite sure on the concept of the protozoans already settled in our tanks before the new clams. What is it in the new clams that is initiating this attack on our old clams? Isn't the protozoans from the same family? I still believe that the clams we bought recently has something "new" that the old clams/tank did not have whether it's a new strain of the protozoan or something else.

It is sad that people are still selling clams. I guess a disease of this magnitude is not sufficient enough for the clam market to stop selling them. I read on the other thread however that the facilities where these clams come from are trying to cleanse their system of the protozoans. How efficient they are at doing it is still yet to be determined. I won't be purchasing any clams for a while at least until there is a definite cure.

[NewSchool04]

while they clean the systems, they still sell the clams. .

[isseym328]

Seriously. I guess people have to make money somehow. If all they do is sell clams then what else can they do? I'd say it's bad practice but i'll have to understand.

Hey Carrie I'm asking way too early but any updates on the Kent D?

[isseym328]

One more thing before I get off RC. I freshwater dipped my clams a few weeks ago and for some reason I forgot about the time and left them in there for a couple hours. To my surprise they were still alive and well. I thought for sure they're going to be dead the next day in the tank. And I think the clams looked a lot better for a longer duration meaning I didn't have to dip them again for quite some while. So just to let you guys know maybe dipping them for longer period of time will keep the protozoans from amassing too quickly

[SSweet1]

The Kent tech D didnt seem to do anything much the huge maxima looked a little better but back again the next morning with the pinching. I think it is good for a dip when you first get something new, too bad I didnt know about this sooner. I agree- they still sell clams while searching for this disease sucks!!!! However I feel that if they made the facts known and warned people ahead of time what they might be getting into then it would be at your own risk BUT aware of the consequences. I had NO IDEA and if I had I wouldnt have tried it out until I had a quarantine tank. I feel that is what they are afraid of is that people will stop buying all together. 1/2 off shipping is what lured me in and I had to research and search to find this info out even with e-mails for help originally, no mention of this thread was made. I personally feel that with half the people getting this and then half not doesnt mean that it is not worth mentioning and warning people about. I mean come on 50/50 odds? ? And noone says a word? Dont get me wrong I am grateful that companys like clams direct are doing all they can do to find a cure but darn I wish I had been warned ahead of time, I figured that they quarantined their stock so double quarantine wasnt necessary boy was I wrong!! And also what would it have accomplished? They still would have died or had to be treated for weeks etc. The only thing it would have done was not infected my 3 1/2 year old clam. Ok off my rant can you tell I am still bummed? Carrie

[NewSchool04]

I hear you Carrie. I'm doing the fresh water dip right now with my Maxima. Looks like from all the reading that I've done that it won't be the last time I do it.

[mbbuna]

i feel ur pain, ive been treating my 20 clams for 2 months now. and i think ive gotten it beat. reread the reef frountiers thread. and remember this is all at our oun risk!
Chris&Barb

[NewSchool04]

mbbuna, when you do the fresh water dip, did your clam open up? I did my first FWD tonight, 10 minutes with RO water at tank temp, pH leveled to tank level. The clam didn't open up at all? Is this normal?

[isseym328]

It's normal if you just recently FWD the clam. When I first started dipping them it took a while for them to open up. Give it until tomorrow when your lights go on.

[NewSchool04]

no, I mean during the dip. Do the clams open or are they supposed to open during the dip? Mine was shut tight like a safe.

[isseym328]

That's totally normal as well. Obviously your clam is not going to react well to the freshwater by opening up. My clams stay shut the whole time except a couple times when my teardrop opened and closed for a few minutes. I've dipped at least 10 times since I found out about the PM so don't worry about the clam shutting up tight.

[NewSchool04]

Thanks isseym. How long would you say I wait before I give another dip?

[isseym328]

Thing is there is no true cure right now for the clams. Even after treating with medication in a QT the protozoans comes back in the main tank. The duration between each FWD really depends on your clams and your tank conditions. For me I don't have to dip them every week but some people do because their clams just start looking bad after a few days. When the mantles look very pinched up it means there's quite a congregation of protozoans in the mantle (from what I read so far). When that happens you will have to FWD or your clam will die.

I can go for about 3-4 weeks w/o having to dip them and they look fine. I'm not really sure why it is so. One thing I want to say is I moved everything in my old tank to my new tank and the only thing left are some small rocks, a clownfish, and the three clams. I wonder if maybe the protozoan don't multiply as freely when the tank has no nutrients. I have no idea but I havent' dipped my clams for about 3 weeks now and they look fine. Take a look at the pic below. There is a little bit of pinching but you can hardly tell:

[isseym328]

Oh yeah my teardrop seems to have a very good natural defense mechanism against the protozoans. I have only dipped it once in the 3-4 months that I've had the problem. This infection affects some clams but not all. Anyone have their gigas and squamosas affected? Seems like so far only maximas and croceas get this infection.

[NewSchool04]

Thanks for the info isseym. I'm going to give it a couple of days but I'm not very confident with my first try. The Maxima is out but only half, the other half is pinched. This is 4 hours after my first dip but better than it was before. I think I am going to treat this very aggressively and do another FSD in a couple of days and maybe go to 15 minutes.
You are very lucky about the teardrop, I've heard they have been hit hard with really no success in healing.

[mbbuna]

both of my squamosa's were effected. all of my clam's were effected!my Derasa just didnt show it that much.i think where the change come for me was when i got ****wd and started doing 100% water changes with the metro instead 50%. but after that i still got some pinching!the last thing that i did was drop my temp to 74 and my clams look FABULOUS. some are still in QT(doing great and will be moved in the morning)and the others are in the main tank and also doing great.

[NewSchool04]

mbbuna, kind of hard to figure out what you did from your last post. Was the temp change what cleared up your clams or the heafty water changes? I'm not sure my SPS can deal with 74.

[isseym328]

so lowering the temp is a good thing? I heard if you raise the temp it might be useful in speeding up the metabolism of the protozoan or something. Either that or they can't take the heat. Or am I thinking about ich.

[isseym328]

If lowering temperature can kill the protozoans I am willing to give it a try. I have a cold water system where I keep my boxfish. The temperature is between 62- 68 most of the time. Can clams handle that temperature? If they can I can put my clams in the tank and see if that will erradicate the protozoans.

[mbbuna]

i dont know! it seems to be working for me but any temp change that u make u should do over a day or two.ive got a 450g system and im planing on runing it at 74 for at least a month so its not like im tring to shock them.

[mbbuna]

Newshcool, just reread. i dont know what did it(and im not saying that im out of the woods yet)but i dont think any of it hert!my QT had no LR just a skimmer so the hevy water changes were needed.

[isseym328]

I wonder if you can treat this like how you treat ich. I don't know how these protozoans reproduce but maybe like ich they have to lay eggs and go through certain stages before attaching itself to the clam. If that is the case 50 percent or 100 percent water changes can greatly reduce the number of protozoans in the water. And if you do enough water changes maybe there won't be any protozoans left in the tank at the end. There has to be a time where the adults die and the eggs(if they even have that) haven't hatched yet. If you do large water changes the eggs/young would be eliminated before they have a chance to hurt the clam. Does that make any sense?

[NewSchool04]

well the fresh water dip last night seemed to help. The clam looks a hellova lot better than yesterday. Still pinched but if I was to give a %, last night the clam was at 25% and today 50%. I'm going to do another dip tomorrow and possibly dip my Crocea also.

I used a tiny amount of Kent Superbuffer to raise the pH in the RO water.