skimmer to handle about 750 gallons

ReeferRon · #1 07/13/2004, 07:57 PM

What skimmer would you recommend for about 750 gallons?

I am considering the lifereef VS3-72, ASM G6, or a Euroreef or building a clone with 3 or 4 sedra needlewheel pumps. Any other skimmers I should consider?

I want one that does not require alot of tuning.

Thanks for any recommendations.

dragon_slayer · #2 07/13/2004, 08:07 PM

i'd recommend the ER and a 12-4 should more then be enough.

kc

KenT · #3 07/14/2004, 03:55 PM

Aerofoamer 848!! www.reefconcepts.com Frank is great to work with!!!

reeftechie · #4 07/14/2004, 04:42 PM

andy at myreefcreations.com makes killer skimmers. as does Euro Reef. also there is GEO, i would contact http://h2otropicals.com/Products/Blems%20&%20Refubs.htm

and buy a blem you will save a few hundred dollars and the same warranty as me as I bought all of mine before finding out about h2otropicals. they have a 12-2 for like $580 that is the best I have ever seen that skimmer http://www.aquadirect.com/store/cust...?productid=443

has it for like $1,000.00 so see if they can get you in a EuroReef CS12-6 that is rated for 800 gallons.

RT

MAS · #5 07/14/2004, 04:52 PM

Please, never go by ANYONE's skimmer "rating".

For 750 gallons I wouldnt use a CS12-4. The minimum on that tank from Euro-reef would be a 12-6 and even that is pushing it a bit I feel, take ER's ratings and cut em in half.

Frank at Reefconcepts does make a good beckett skimmer, but I would look at doing an 872/874(with quad injectors) not an 848.

For Venturi, I would look at Schuran as a 1st choice, Lifereef as a 2nd choice(make sure its countercurrent) if your budget minded.

cheers
MAS

KenT · #6 07/14/2004, 05:50 PM

I'm actually using my 848 with a venturi, not the beckett it came with. I found the beckett clogged to easily and needed constant cleaning. My total system is close to 650 gal.

MAS · #7 07/14/2004, 06:41 PM

Yep, I feel Venturi's do just as good a job(if not better) as a beckett without the "clogging" issues that plague em.

dragon_slayer · #8 07/14/2004, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MAS
Please, never go by ANYONE's skimmer "rating".

For 750 gallons I wouldnt use a CS12-4. The minimum on that tank from Euro-reef would be a 12-6 and even that is pushing it a bit I feel, take ER's ratings and cut em in half............

i'd compleatly disagree with that, ERs 'rating' is very generous on the side of what it will do, the 12-4 will more then take care of 750g of system volume, but i'd expect no less of a statement from a LFS owner (seller)

kc

dendronepthya · #9 07/14/2004, 07:54 PM

On my 750 gallon systems, I am using a skimmer made by geo. It is about 12" in diameter and 48" tall.

dendronepthya · #10 07/14/2004, 07:55 PM

I also own a Lifereef VS3-60 which I have on my 120 gallon. That might work too.

MAS · #11 07/14/2004, 08:22 PM

Quote:

i'd compleatly disagree with that, ERs 'rating' is very generous on the side of what it will do, the 12-4 will more then take care of 750g of system volume, but i'd expect no less of a statement from a LFS owner (seller)

ER's ratings(along with pretty much all the hobby lines) are a joke and as people dont understand they are just a guide at best. And this is coming from one who sells em(less and less I might add). I personally have a CS12-6 on a 240g tank that is still underskimmed with a heavy bioload of Ritteri anemone's(this will soon change though). Please dont label me as a "LFS store owner" as I only deal in custom setups in reality anyway.

And actually telling someone what skimmer is OK for a person's tank just based on water volume alone is poor advise to say the least. Noone here has asked any real important questions like what type of fish/how many fish, corals,clams etc will be inhabiting the tank. The CS12-6 is good on a 400g tank with light to moderate bioload at best. On a 750g That bioload should be very light if you want to maintain relatively clean water as the CS12-6 will fully turn a tank that size over once every 6 hours at best.

MAS

dragon_slayer · #12 07/14/2004, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MAS
..............Please dont label me as a "LFS store owner" as I only deal in custom setups in reality anyway. ..........
MAS

sorry, but you did that yourself with your Occupation: LFS Owner

again sorry if my postings offended you, but i'll still stick behind the ER ratings.

good day
kc

MAS · #13 07/14/2004, 09:00 PM

Youll stick behind ER's ratings?? LOL! Do you know how they came across their "ratings"?? I had a conversation with Jeff from ER about 2 years ago on this very subject that ended with him stating that if he didnt rate the skimmers(in a competitive nature against "similiar" products on the market) the way they are currently they wouldnt sell as well. So Im glad to hear your thoughts on sticking behind ER ratings. If I stuck to their ratings and used a CS8-4 series skimmer on my 240g Ritteri tank, there is a good chance that I would have alot of dead anemone's on my hand. Its bad enough that currently the 12-6 still leaves alot of organics in the tank.

Did you know that ER has changed their "tank ratings"on their skimmers a few times over the last few years? Why would they do that do you suppose?

Personally I would take other things into consideration when "rating" a skimmer such as reaction chamber size, pump throughput,potential bubble dwell time and bubble size. Even the cleaning of the skimmer(and how often its done) will in effect change its "rating"/abilities. Sorry, but going by "mfg ratings" is in essence backwards thinking in my book. You can only take it with a grain of salt. I would rather look at the big picture in whole on a units abilities.

Mimbler1 · #14 07/14/2004, 09:27 PM

"On a 750g That bioload should be very light if you want to maintain relatively clean water as the CS12-6 will fully turn a tank that size over once every 6 hours at best."

Mas, how do you come up with that number? I'm not disputing it, but I'm running 500 gph through my CS12-2, and it would seem that 4 sedra 9000's would have a high throughput for that skimmer.
thanks, Mike

MAS · #15 07/14/2004, 09:41 PM

Mike, the Sedra pumps have alot of water back pressure to deal with on the 12-6 due to its height and water volume the reaction chamber can hold.Personally I think they should ditch the Sedra pumps on their larger skimmers altogether. All of them combined dump about 1500gph(and this is assuming they are clean)at most roughly. And to fully turn your tank over completely(though technically you can never turn your tanks water volume over 100%) will take many cycles through the skimmer.

Mimbler1 · #16 07/14/2004, 09:48 PM

Thanks Mas,
I thought that might be the problem. My 12-2 is an external, so the flow through is controlled by what additional pump I put on it. On the in-sump models, the back pressure is also reducing the bubble production as it is proportional to the pump output. Although Jeff doesn't market it, the external skimmers pump more air because the sedra's are pumping against a delta head height of 3 or 4 inches rather than the height of the skimmer for the in-sump models.
regards, Mike

MAS · #17 07/14/2004, 10:08 PM

Mike, glad to see someone on this thread is on the ball! =)

cheers
MAS
John

ReeferRon · #18 07/14/2004, 10:40 PM

Thanks for all the opinions and for the info that may help

457 gallon mixed reef tank(sps mainly) with a fairly large fish load. Right now three clams and a rose bta.

The rest of the volume will include a sump and refug.

I have two amp masters for return and two wave2ks for water movement.

I want something that I do not want to fuss with.

I do not believe a person can overskim. I also feed moderately.

MAS so what do you recommend?

I am glad to get opinions because I plan on buying one skimmer and dont want to find out later that it isnt enough.

MAS · #19 07/14/2004, 10:51 PM

Depends on your budget honestly. The Schuran Jetskim 250 or an 872/4 from Reefconcepts if your budgetminded, an AQ250 or AQ300 if cost isnt an issue and you want close to a 0 maintenance schedule for your skimmer(though you will need a cold water tap and drain). Though be aware that my "recommendations" are definetly from "higher scale" lines available commercially. Im sure there are other good choices but just do yourself a favor and overlook the "ratings" and look more towards the physical characteristics of the skimmer in question.

cheers
MAS

ReeferRon · #20 07/14/2004, 11:02 PM

What about the mtc hsa 1000 or 2000?

Who sells the schuran in the us?

What about an AquaC

Thanks

Nanook · #21 07/14/2004, 11:42 PM

MAS is one of the US distributor's for the Schuran lineup. However, according to Johannes there is no exclusivity with their professional lineup as per vendor's.

Here is a list of the Schuran pricing (as of today) for those considering these skimmers:

A) AQ250 skimmer 1890.- Euro
Aquakat 250 437.- Euro
Pump ARBO 3 phase 250W/400V 670.- Euro + costs for 115V estimated to be 120 Euro
Fittings pump/skimmer, mounting on enlarged ground plate 145.- Euro

sum is 3142,- Euro ex works .

B) AQ300 skimmer: 2550.- Euro
AquaKat 300: 437.- Euro (optional)
Pump MB15-85 (370W/400V): 670.- Euro (optional) + costs for 115V estimated to be 200 Euro
Fittings pump/skimmer, mounting on enlarged ground plate 145.- Euro (when ordered together with pump)

sum is 3802.- Euro ex works.

delivery time: 4 weeks

independent which model you prefer the transport & packing costs will be identical.
custom work: 25.- Euro
packing and wooden box (heat treated) : 175.- Euro

While I would love to have a Schuran (because they are probably one of THE best), there is no way in heck I can afford $4000.00 on a skimmer. I think the large needlewheels by Euroreef or GEO are a much more affordable alternative.

I have the same water volumes as you, Ron, and plan on using the Turboflotor 5000 Twins on each tank. The good thing about these skimmers is that they are very cheap to run.

I do agree with MAS about actual water volumes versus what the manufacturer recommends. I think the truth is in the testing and seeing how one skimmer works for you. I might be dissatisfied with my Turbos by AM, if so, I will have to win the lottery to be able to afford the Schuran' or other power hungry and high pricetag skimmer lines.

Just my .02.

Nanook

KenT · #22 07/15/2004, 11:05 AM

[ And actually telling someone what skimmer is OK for a person's tank just based on water volume alone is poor advise to say the least. Noone here has asked any real important questions like what type of fish/how many fish, corals,clams etc will be inhabiting the tank. The CS12-6 is good on a 400g tank with light to moderate bioload at best. On a 750g That bioload should be very light if you want to maintain relatively clean water as the CS12-6 will fully turn a tank that size over once every 6 hours at best.

MAS [/B][/QUOTE]

Very good point!

As for the all the skimmers out there I find it difficult to swallow that one is better than the other. A round tube is a round tube is a round tube!!!! I have yet to read any studies on skimmers that compare them, and for that matter any "scientific" studies done to show what the "optimum" skimmer should consist of. I know people have studied them, but there has to be a "best" way to remove organics.

Now, I do believe these round tubes can be optimized through bubble injection, water flow, duration/contact time. Maybe it is me but this area is still vague. Myreef, Geo, Aerofoamer, MTC, Lifereef, ER, have all been raved about on this site. Which is the best I don't know. It is up to you to do the research and make a choice you are comfortable with. I have no conection with Reef Concepts, but I recomend them them because my skimmer performs well with no hassles and my tank is thriving.

I'm not looking for arguments just stating my mind. I would like to know if others agree, or to give better info than I have.

dendronepthya · #23 07/15/2004, 01:01 PM

For me, "best" has nothing to do with the skimmer's ability to remove dissolved organics. All the skimmers that have been mentioned do a very good job in that regard. I just assume that an appropriately sized skimmer will perform well regardless of the technology used to create foam. The best skimmers in my book are the ones that are the easiest to clean and maintain. I like the thing to be able to come apart easily and be serviced without too much hassle.

friogatto · #24 07/15/2004, 01:09 PM

So what do people think about the Aqua C EV series?
I had an EV 180 on a 125 gal system for over a year and it worked great.
I have ordered the EV 1000 for my 300 gal system.
The only thing I can think of about these skimmers is the cloggin. The strombus snails would get through the pump and clog the injector.
Does anyone have any experience with teh EV 1000 or 400?

pmrogers · #25 07/15/2004, 01:22 PM

You might also consider an RK2 25PE as an option between the Lifereef and Schuran price points. For less than a Euroreef 12-6 and not much more than a Lifereef 72", you get a much larger reaction chamber, longer contact time, and a middling-quality automatic cleaning system.

The auto-washdown is nowhere near as elegant or efficient as the Schuran design seems to be, but at less than half the price, it might be a reasonable compromise for you.

For more on the RK2, check out my review here

Regards,