Another 30 gallon cube

[EnFuego]

I tried to post this yesterday, but somehow I don't think it worked. I am moving in 2 weeks, so after a long wait, I finally get to set my new tank up.

Here is what I have:

-30 gallon Oceanic Cube Tank (drilled in the back) for two drains to sump, 1 drain to CL, and 2 CL returns. There will be 2 more CL returns over the top in the front facing back, and two returns from the sump over the top in the back facing diagonally to the front (hope that all makes sense). All in all 4 returns from a CL and 2 from a sump. 2 drains to sump and 1 drain to CL.
-Oceans Motions Squirt for CL
-250 watt Aquamedic MH 20K AB bulb
-Base Rock that used to be live rock in my old tank
-Heater

What I need:

-Live Rock and Live Sand
-Eheim 1250 for sump return
-Eheim 1262 for CL
-Protein Skimmer (need help deciding which one)
-Sump (might just go cheap and go with a rubbermaid, hopefully I can find a good deal on something else though)

I am aiming for a mainly SPS tank with a clam or two, and a few LPS/softies and possibly an anemone. I haven't bought a whole lot of equipment yet, so feel free to add any input. I especially would like help with the protein skimmer. I don't mind spending some money, but at the same time I don't want to be wasting money where I don't need to.

Other various thoughts:
-I plan on maybe an 1" or so of sand on the bottom for aesthetics.
-Not sure yet about stocking plans fish wise...very open to suggestions for this as well.
-I think the 6 returns (4 CL and 2 from sump should make for a lot of good random flow in there especially with the OM). Any other types of pumps I should check out for an external pump?

[surfnvb7]

i'm very interested in your set up. is this still all on the drawing board? or do you have any pics?

i'm assuming you are using 1" bulkheads and PVC for the drains and return lines?

i'd like to see a pic of how you did your overflow though, did you have this custom made, or did you do it yourself?

my big planning for my cube is where the heck to put the fuge. esspecially if there are more than 1 return pump, and/or an in sump skimmer. then with the drain lines coming from the bulkheads, theres not really any room for HOB fuge or a HOB skimmer.

i was thinking of going with an externam skimmer, only prob is all the smallest models of external skimmers are rated far greater than a 30g cube. but i'm thinking, a 30g cube + 20g sump + 20g frag tank + 10g mantis tank may be enough to add up to get a the deltec AP600 or the comparable H&S.

w/ those eheim pumps, plus the 250w halide, do you think you'll have heat problems? i plan on putting a 250w HQI w/ radium bulb (SE). someday hopefully i can afford to put a lumenarc reflector over the top also, along with some T5 actinics so i only have to run the halide 6-8hrs a day.

i'll just be using Mag3's and a Mag5 for the returns to the other tanks. cheap and effective. no really need for a really expensive return pump.

[MattG]

Sounds like a great setup!

I would really like to see your overflow plans/pics too.

I am in the process of adding a sump to my 30 cube and am not sure what the best way would be. I am planning on using a H&S a110 for the skimmer.

[surfnvb7]

Originally posted by MattG
Sounds like a great setup!

I would really like to see your overflow plans/pics too.

I am in the process of adding a sump to my 30 cube and am not sure what the best way would be. I am planning on using a H&S a110 for the skimmer.

i see you are using a deltec MCE500 on your current 30g? and you dont think thats overkill? i know alot of deltec people, and the top deltec distributor, and the consensus is that skimmer is better suited to a 50-75g volume.

the H&S 110 is comparable to the deltec AP600, and i see people running these skimmers on 120g tanks. i was thinking, i could pull off the lowest model H&S if i got close to 75g total volume though, with a high bioload.

but with only 30g, unless you have a tang in there, how would you build up enough critical mass of foam at the top of the skimmer to really make it consistantly work? all it would be able to do is wet skim after you fed the tank really...?? see what i'm sayin?

i havent used either H&S or deltec from experience, just what i've seen in person. whats your take on this?

[MattG]

My opinion is that the size of the tank doesnt really matter, its how much you feed that does. I like to have lots of fish and feed heavily so i want a skimmer that allows that. I shut off the skimmer during feeding for 2 hours and then let the skimmer take anything uneaten out.

[surfnvb7]

Originally posted by MattG
My opinion is that the size of the tank doesnt really matter, its how much you feed that does. I like to have lots of fish and feed heavily so i want a skimmer that allows that. I shut off the skimmer during feeding for 2 hours and then let the skimmer take anything uneaten out.

yeah, thats true. so whats your total water volume currently with the MCE600? and how many fish and what kind are they? just curious. do you pull out the thick thick nasty smellin stuff deltec is famous for? or is it just tea color and consistancy?

[EnFuego]

I'm still debating on the overflow idea. My first inclination was First Class Aquatics (www.firstclassquatics.com) and just put it centered on the back, but it might take up too much room. My other thought it to use the top two holes in the back of the tank and just do it like this (x2) (I just threw the pic together in paint so forgive its ugliness):



The drains are all 1" PVC and the CL returns will be 3/4". I made a mistake when I had the tank drilled and got them all drilled for 1" bulkheads, but the OM is for 3/4" PVC as is the outlet on the Eheim. I think I am going to use the 3/4" PVC for the closed loop and just expand them to 1" PVC right before it gets to the tank. The 1250 outlet is 1/2", but those will be going over the top so no worries there.

Here is a diagram of the holes in the back:



If I get the overflow, I will use the center hole (near the bottom) for the drain. Then 1 of the bottom ones would be the drain for the CL and the remaining would be returns (a few returns would also come over the top). If I don't buy an overflow and go with the elbows pointed up in the tank for the top two holes, then the middle one becomes the CL drain...the bottom two are CL returns and then 2 more CL returns over the top and sump returns over the top (how I described it in the first post). I am leaning towards the no-overflow idea right now, but I can still be swayed either way.

I am considering have a sort of "euro bracing" made out of acrylic to simply lay on the rim of the tank so I can place returns on it. IT will serve no bracing purpose at all, but will serve to hold PVC in place (I got this idea from Oogie on nano-reef.com and reeftuners.com).

I have considered Deltec or H & S for the skimmer, but I don't know if that would be way overkill. I am planning on some sort of sump, maybe 10 gallons or so (whatever I can find to fit under the stand...which I still don't have). I like the thought of the MCE600, but still not sure about its performance, I would like more feedback on it. I have also thought about the Aqua C Remora.

I know most of this is pretty poorly written, but I hope you can understand what I am trying to say...haha.

[MattG]

I was thinking of using an overflow box also. I just am unsure of the space issue also. I hadnt seen the link you posted before so thanks for that! Only place i had seen was www.wetdryfilters.com

If you are interested in an mce600 i am currently selling mine for $315.

Surf: The only water volume i have is whats inside the 30. Right now i have a flame angel, clown, sand sifting goby, six line wrasse and 3 damsels. I will probably be adding a couple more small fish in the future. The skimmer pulls tea color in the cup but the wall of the collection cup is thick.

Here are some shots from april

[surfnvb7]

EnFuego

I dont think you should go the route of doing just an up elbow as your drain. They dont work very well, and are very tempermental. I've done everything myself in the past (drilled the tanks, done all the plumbing, and made my own over flow boxes out of acrylic). I've tried the up elbow, and it just sucks compared to doing an overflow box. Esspecially if noise and the toilet flushing sound is a problem (it gets VERY annoying). But 2 overflow boxes are gonna take up alot of space according to your plan. Why did you want to get 2 overflow drains done? Why not just a bigger hole (like 1.5 bulkhead)? From what I understand, a bigger hole is better than 2 smaller ones for some reason.

Considering all the pumps, and the light you are running on your tank I dont think a 10g sump is gonna cut it. You will need either a good sized fan to cut down on the heat, which will cause alot of evaporation, and with a small sump you'll need a good reliable auto-top-off system in place, or you'll need a chiller most likely. But, this highly depends on the ambient room temperature unless it is below 75.

Also with the small sump, thats alot of pumps to be putting in a 10g tank (2 eheims for CL and return, plus a pump feeding a skimmer, and another pump operating the skimmer (depends on the skimmer).....just sounds like alot.

Are you not going to do a fuge? With all of those holes and plumbing drains and returns, i dont see how you'll fit any HOB skimmer/fuge on the main tank.

Nice planning though!! You've put alot of thought into it!

MattG

Ok, I see your point with the bioload, esspecially with the angel. I think you should keep it though, by adding a sump you arent increasing the bioload, and really have no nead for a larger skimmer. From my understanding in reading the deltec forum, and from people who have deltecs, you should be aiming for dark sludge like skimmate from the deltecs that reaks beyond beleif. Tea colored skimmate is really only wet skimming from what I understand. No need to spend more money if you have something that already works, and you aren't increasing main tank size and thus alot more bioload.

[EnFuego]

AL,
I was thinking of gravity feeding the skimmer (if possible...I know some models wont allow this), so that cuts back on one pump. If I go with the overflow I was going to just use one drain. The purpose of having two with the elbow idea was basically just for security...in case one clogs, etc. I'll think about enlarging that middle hole for a 1.5" bulkhead for the drain if I do an overflow.
I keep my house around 73-74 degrees, which may help a little with heat on the tank, but I'm guessing I will have an auto-topoff on the tank, so I may run a fan on it.
As far as sump space goes, I am thinking of drilling the sump so that I can run the return pump on the ouside and mount it somewhere outside the sump. The CL pump won't be in the sump either. The Skimmer will, but if I go with a HOB skimmer like the MCE600 (which also only has one pump), then I can save some space that way, and still fit a fuge (which I would like to do).

Thanks a lot for all the input. This is only my second reef tank, and I want to try to get things right from the start.

-Mark

[surfnvb7]

sounds good. from my experience with plumbing, you can do all the planning you want, but it really just comes down to hacking out PVC and seeing what fits. basically trial and error

[MattG]

Hows this coming along mark?