Bio-Balls vs. No Bio-Balls

fahadahmed · #1 01/03/2008, 01:03 PM

I have always heard that you should have more bio balls in the sump. I have a sump with bio balls in the compartment where there are suppose to be bio balls. I also have a medium size rock sitting sump as well.

I am hearing many folks on RC talking about removing bio balls to improve the water quality.

I would like to get opinion from all of you see if that is a good idea. If so, what should I replace it with, if any?

JediReefer · #2 01/03/2008, 01:06 PM

Bioballs can become nitrate factories, and many of us do not use them. Insted we replace them with live rock rubble, sometimes nothing at all.

I am assuming you have more of a wet/dry filter than a sump with baffles etc.

birmy · #3 01/03/2008, 01:08 PM

I am in the same boat. I have a wet dry system with bio balls. Tagging along for more info.

kzickovich · #4 01/03/2008, 01:08 PM

To tell you the truth I removed my bioballs about three months ago. I didn't have nitrates before or after removing them. So the way I look at it why not take them out just to be safe. It gave me more room to put in a phosphate reactor on top of it.

fahadahmed · #5 01/03/2008, 01:09 PM

I have wet / dry system.

So, do bio balls serve any purpose? are they there for a reason?

Randy Holmes-Farley · #6 01/03/2008, 01:10 PM

In a reef aquarium with plenty of live rock, there is no apparent advantage to having bioballs, and there can be circumstances where it is less than desirable (with elevated nitrate, for example).

dileggi · #7 01/03/2008, 01:11 PM

I have a biocube. It uses bio balls as well in the middle chamber of the wet/dry before the sump portion.

I've been told the same thing about the bio balls causing high nitrates.

It's been about 4 mos now and I am still running the bio balls and dosing Amqeul on a weekly maintenance schedule. I never get my nitrates below 10, which may be caused by my bio balls. I'm not sure. Most people on here seem to use live rock, live rock rubble, mud and algae instead of the bio balls.

JediReefer · #8 01/03/2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fahadahmed
I have wet / dry system.

So, do bio balls serve any purpose? are they there for a reason?

They are surface area ( like live rock ) for bacteria to grow.

BangkokMatt · #9 01/03/2008, 01:32 PM

You should remove the bio balls a handful per day until they are gone. Then replace with LR or LR rubble.
Bio balls can only be negative in a reef tak.

Nanz · #10 01/03/2008, 01:39 PM

I removed the bio-balls from my NanoCube-12 but I left in the ceramic white stones. Is that ok?

m2434 · #11 01/03/2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nanz
I removed the bio-balls from my NanoCube-12 but I left in the ceramic white stones. Is that ok?

Are they fully submerged?
If not then there is really no difference.

BangkokMatt · #12 01/03/2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nanz
I removed the bio-balls from my NanoCube-12 but I left in the ceramic white stones. Is that ok?

I would remove the ceramic stones and relace with LR rubble. Thay are no better than bio balls

fahadahmed · #13 01/03/2008, 02:12 PM

I have some very pourus aqua-culturred rock that is dry at the moment. Can I remove the bio balls and refill it with the dry aqua-cultured rock? It should seed and start growing bacteria, right?

JediReefer · #14 01/03/2008, 02:16 PM

You should first rinse off the rock of any dead matter. I would also give it a good curing first, depending on how much rubble you are adding and your current LR in the display.

fahadahmed · #15 01/03/2008, 02:19 PM

there was never anything live on it. I bought it dry. The seller had told me that I would have to culture it. I have about 40lbs of big rock pieces. they are sitting in my garage doing nothing.

JediReefer · #16 01/03/2008, 02:24 PM

No matter, I would still give it a rinsing. Then cure it and add it to the tank. You can add some of the larger ones to the display and break one of them up for the rubble.

seapug · #17 01/03/2008, 02:50 PM

Any medium that has water trickling over or through it (not submerged) will function EXACTLY like "bioballs" whether it is live rock, ceramic rings, bioballs, hair curlers, or a washcloth. The nitrifying bacteria colonize the air-water interface on any media that has water trickling over and can convert ammonia to nitrate more quickly than it can be de-nitrified by anaerobic zones in your tank (deep sand bed, live rock, etc.). In addition to the nitrate factor, trickle filters can also cause increased levels of phosphate and chronic low alkalinity.

I ran bio-balls in my 90 gallon for over a year and never had measurable nitrate, but had a chronic hair algae problem and constantly battled low alkalinity. I removed all the bio balls at once and within 3 days the diatoms on the sand disappeared and hair algae started to turn brown. A week after that I installed a phosban reactor and put a Purple Tang in my tank. Two months later my tank is completely free of hair algae, the sand stays white, and the Alkalinity is much easier to manage. My tank has never looked better. Get rid of your trickle filter.

BangkokMatt · #18 01/03/2008, 02:55 PM

I agree with seapug. All comments I made about media was in reference to it being totally submerged . Apologies if I failed to make that clear

JediReefer · #19 01/03/2008, 02:58 PM

^^^ Same.

Actually I dont see the need for any rubble at all of you have enough in the tank. I would just add a few more lbs to your display and let the skimmer handle the rest.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #20 01/03/2008, 03:29 PM

Any medium that has water trickling over or through it (not submerged) will function EXACTLY like "bioballs" whether it is live rock, ceramic rings, bioballs, hair curlers, or a washcloth.

edit: never mind. I missed the part about the media being in the air. I misinterpreted it without that caveat.

Randy Holmes-Farley · #21 01/03/2008, 03:46 PM

In addition to the nitrate factor, trickle filters can also cause increased levels of phosphate and chronic low alkalinity.

How do you believe a trickle filter cause chronic low alkalinity?

Production of nitrate in any way can deplete alkalinity, but steady nitrate does not impact alkalinity.

m2434 · #22 01/03/2008, 03:56 PM

I would agree/believe everything you said Randy. However, if some porus media, say LR is exposed to that much air, I'm not sure that it, would even get anoxic enough to promote denitrification. However, of course, if it's a big enough piece it would, but for practical purposes it may not...

Randy Holmes-Farley · #23 01/03/2008, 03:59 PM

I wasn't referring to live rock in air, just in the tank. I guess I misunderstood the emphasis on the media being in the air in the post above. Sorry.

m2434 · #24 01/03/2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
I wasn't referring to live rock in air, just in the tank. I guess I misunderstood the emphasis on the media being in the air in the post above. Sorry.

It's okay - apparently it happens to the best of us

seapug · #25 01/03/2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
In addition to the nitrate factor, trickle filters can also cause increased levels of phosphate and chronic low alkalinity.

How do you believe a trickle filter cause chronic low alkalinity?

Production of nitrate in any way can deplete alkalinity, but steady nitrate does not impact alkalinity.

If the essential problem with trickle filters is the constant production of nitrate, then wouldn't it follow that nitrate would be constantly produced faster than it can be removed through denitrification? And would this not result in a constantly rising (not steady) level nitrate that would cause chronically low Alkalinity?

I certainly can't claim to know more about reef tank chemistry than you, Randy, but it seems logical and that is certainly the situation I experienced with my tank.