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  #101  
Old 05/12/2007, 06:58 PM
Gary Majchrzak Gary Majchrzak is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JB NY
I ran my tank with mag around 1500-1550 for a little over a year with no problems to my SPS. I had probably close to 60 different acros.
Hi, Joe. Did you notice an increase in coralline algae growth when running elevated levels of Mg?
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some common aquarium nuisances: Bryopsis,Derbesia(hair algae),Cyanobacteria(red slime), Diatoms(golden brown algae), Dinoflagellates(gooey air bubbles),Valonia (bubble algae)
  #102  
Old 05/13/2007, 11:58 AM
Reeferhead Reeferhead is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdieck
Right, some of the negative effects may be due to excesive Sulphate ions comming from using only Epsom Salts.
Ideally you want to use a mix of 10 to 1 Magnesium Chloride (MagFlake) to Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salts).
If you will be using MagFlake be easy on it and do not increase magnesium more than 50 ppm per day and watch for Ammonia which might be the other negative effect. Although MagFlake has been safe to use it is produced using a process with Ammonia. Limiting the daily increase will give the system a chance to process any ammonia that may be present.
Help me out here because I'm getting conflicting information. Check out this thread in which its suggested that only MgSO4 (Epson salts) should be used.

So who's right?

FYI, I just started using 5:3 Magflake to Epson Salts to test this method against my own bryopsis.

Edit: I just relized (post posting) that you had already commented in that thread
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Last edited by Reeferhead; 05/13/2007 at 12:14 PM.
  #103  
Old 05/13/2007, 12:13 PM
neelix neelix is offline
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Use the 10 to 1, upgraded 2 part formula. Safer IMO.
  #104  
Old 05/13/2007, 12:53 PM
jdieck jdieck is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by neelix
Use the 10 to 1, upgraded 2 part formula. Safer IMO.
Just consulted the calculations and the ratio is more like 8:1 or 9:1 if you are not using Magflake to maintain calcium. If you do a ratio of 5:3 is more likely. in any case you will have not much trouble.
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  #105  
Old 05/13/2007, 02:09 PM
ranceego ranceego is offline
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try not to raise it too quick, i had 12 or more starfish stuned for 2-3 weeks no movement. i thought they were dead. but they came back after the mag level dropped a bit
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  #106  
Old 05/13/2007, 07:12 PM
neelix neelix is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdieck
Just consulted the calculations and the ratio is more like 8:1 or 9:1 if you are not using Magflake to maintain calcium. If you do a ratio of 5:3 is more likely. in any case you will have not much trouble.

You mean dow flake to maintain calcium.

I use the formula recommended for people who use kalk. 7.25 cups mag flake to 3/4 cups ES.

So far no change in the bryopsis, but the snails started climbing out of the tank!! Been going up slowly also, just hit the 1400 mark. God I hope this works.
  #107  
Old 05/13/2007, 08:00 PM
salty joe salty joe is offline
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Quote:
by jdieck [/i]
Just consulted the calculations and the ratio is more like 8:1 or 9:1 if you are not using Magflake to maintain calcium. If you do a ratio of 5:3 is more likely. in any case you will have not much trouble. [/B]
Is this by weight or by volume?
  #108  
Old 05/13/2007, 08:44 PM
Gary Majchrzak Gary Majchrzak is offline
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anecdotal evidence would seem to indicate mollusks being sensitive to elevated levels of Mg...
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some common aquarium nuisances: Bryopsis,Derbesia(hair algae),Cyanobacteria(red slime), Diatoms(golden brown algae), Dinoflagellates(gooey air bubbles),Valonia (bubble algae)
  #109  
Old 05/13/2007, 11:06 PM
jdieck jdieck is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by salty joe
Is this by weight or by volume?
Volume
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  #110  
Old 05/14/2007, 01:34 AM
Peter Eichler Peter Eichler is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Majchrzak
anecdotal evidence would seem to indicate mollusks being sensitive to elevated levels of Mg...
I can probably attest to elevated Mag levels and their effects better than most here. As I pointed out earlier, I had an accidental overdose to the tune of 2200+ ppm (much higher than levels people are talking about here). Of course this is anecdotal as well.

First of all, I believe the overdose happened back in Oct. Prior to the overdose my Mg ran 1300-1400. After the overdose I found as much information as I could about the negatives of elevated Mg levels and found very little that gave me cause for alarm. Upon observation of the tanks inhabitants there were no signs of stress right away or even the days following the overdose. So, I decided to just keep it business as usual and not panic and do a huge waterchange. So, my tank is now down to about 1400 ppm Mg, but the majority of the time over the last 6 months it had been 1700 and was over 2000 for at least a couple of those months.

Just some basic observations in that time, whether or not they were related to Mg in any way is hard to say...

1.) About the time period of the overdose I added a Crocea clam, the clam had bleached during shipping. In the past six months the clam has made a recovery, some of the area on the edges still appear to be a little bleached but overall the clam has been very healthy and grown. Another thing to note is this clam has been near the sandbed the whole time in a 25" deep tank under T5s. So anyone that makes the claim that clams won't do well under T5s or need to be kept close to the light source with T5s is wrong.

Conclusion: Maybe the clam would have recovered quicker, without the high Mg levels, but clearly it was nothing fatal or too detrimental to the clam.

2.) I've experienced sand clumping since the tank was started. I can't figure it out, and the original reason for making the mag supplement was to boost Mg a little to see if it would help. It did nothing, sand still clumps and all my Calcium and KH levels remain around the normal levels suggested to keep a reef aquarium. Perhaps it started clumping worse with the elevated Mg levels but it's hard to say.

Conclusion: At least in this case elevated Mg levels don't seem to have fixed the problem and probably didn't make it worse. It's important to note that my Mg levels have never been low in this tank and always slightly elevated from natural levels.

3.) Coraline growth was good prior to the elevated levels, after the elevated levels it has been explosive. We're talking a thick layer on every inch of glass. To the point where I've given up on keeping anything but the front glass clean. However, now that the levels have come down closer to natural some of that coraline is starting to die back. Whether this is a natural cycle it's hard to say.

Conclusion: The elevated Mg levels combine with maintaining proper Calcium and HK levels seems to have made coraline grow at an accelrated rate. Perhaps without the elevated levels much of that algae was no longer able to sustain itself.

4.) Shortly before the OD I received a maricultered Acropora sp. Before reaching me, the specimen had some tissue necrosis around the base and also had what I believed to be a predatory crab. Within a week after the overdose the tissue recession got worse and only some of the tips ended up surviving. In the last few months the tips have been fragged and are doing well and coloring uop better than when I received the piece. Other SPS I had at the time remained well and grew well.

Conclusion: The elevated Mg levels may have pushed an already ailing specimen over the edge. But overall it does not seem elevated Mg levels (> 1600 & < 2200) will have many negative effects on most SPS. It's important to note that this includes only 2 different Montipora sp. and 3 different Acropora sp. It's a small sample since I've been going slow with SPS due to it being a newer tank.

5.) I had some Halimeda growth priod to the OD. After the OD growth has taken off considerably.

Conclusion: Elevated Mg at the very least don't inhibit most calcerous algae growth and would seem to help promote quicker growth (duh! ).

6.) I have a lot of zoanthids in my tank. After the OD I have had a few specimens shrink up and lose color in their skirts, others have grown larger and spread quickly. I have not been able to reverse this with more or less light and even have tried MH in my prop tank which is on the same system. It would appear this is a water chemistry issue.

Conclusion: Most likely the shrinking and skirt color is due to a lack of nutrients in the water. However, I'm not quite willing to rule out elevated Mg levels as a factor. We'll see if any of these zoanthids start to recover now that Mg levels are close to natural levels.

7.) Within this system I have a pretty diverse mix of macroalgae. Various red algaes, at least 3 different Caulerpa sp., 2 different Chaetomorpha sp. and a few unidentified specimens. Growth remained consistent with what is was before the OD and no negeative effects were seen.

Conclusion: Most macroalgae commonly kept in marine aquariums seems unaffected by elevated Mg levels.

8.) I have a few different LPS species and all were added after the Mg OD. Most seem healthy and have done well and grown. However, one Platygyra sp. bleached rather easily even when kept at the bottom of the aquarium.

Conclusion: The bleaching was most likely due to lighting. The coral is rather shaded and has gained all of its color back, but it's still possible elevated Mg levels played a part.

9.) I have Astrea, Cerith, Turbo, and Stomatella snails, at least 5 of each and up to 25 ceriths and hundreds of Stomatella. None seemed to have any adverse reactions to the elevated Mg. levels. The same goes for 2 emerald crabs and 2 Lettuce Sea Slugs. However, I added 3 Peppermint shrimp during this time and they were never seen from again after acclimation. I added another 3 a month or two ago and they are the model of health.

Conclusion: At least in my case, no snails had adverse reactions to the elevated Mg levels. I do feel that for whatever reason the original shrimp acclimated poorly, perhaps from Mg being 2000+ ppm at the time. The second batch showed no adverse reactions and the Mg levels were tested to be about 1750 at the time. Sidenote, both batches came from the same place and in both instances the SG was .006 lower than mine and both groups were drip acclimated over the course of a few hours.




Final Conclusion: Over the course of the last 6 months I can't find any organisms in my aquarium that had any stress that I can directly attribute to my elevated Mg levels over the course of 6 months. My tank has remained Bryopsis free ever since the OD. Well, for the most part... There is a very small amount that was growing on the inside of my overflow about a month ago. However, it has not reappeared on any of my rocks. One last note, at the time of the OD I was aggresively skimming, feeding lightly, and using as much Chaeto as possible to export nutrients. At the time of the disappearance of the Bryopsis I did not attribute it to the Mg OD for those reasons. It's still hard to say for sure that the Mg OD was the sole reason for the Brysopsis dying off, but at this point it seems it was at least a contributing factor.

Sorry for being so long winded and I hope this will give someone a little more insight.
  #111  
Old 05/15/2007, 01:34 AM
Peter Eichler Peter Eichler is offline
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I guess I killed it with my long windedness
  #112  
Old 05/15/2007, 05:04 AM
buzzer buzzer is offline
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LOL
I have not replied on this thread Peter Eichler but I did subscribe to the thread as it is a very interesting theory and although yes long winded ha ha your thread was probably the most informative for myself giving your full experience of the situation.
keep up the good work everyone.
  #113  
Old 05/15/2007, 05:32 AM
20 20 20 20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Eichler
I guess I killed it with my long windedness
No, we're just still reading...
  #114  
Old 05/15/2007, 07:17 AM
jdieck jdieck is offline
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and reading...
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  #115  
Old 05/15/2007, 08:17 AM
JB NY JB NY is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Majchrzak
Hi, Joe. Did you notice an increase in coralline algae growth when running elevated levels of Mg?
Hey Gary, I didn't. I had good coralline growth, but it was the same as when I had mg levels 1200-1300.
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  #116  
Old 05/15/2007, 05:00 PM
neelix neelix is offline
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Well nothing nada so far. Its growing faster and according to the Sera Mg kit I am at 1620 and have been for over 24 hours

Now the smaller snails are starting to fall over also.
  #117  
Old 05/15/2007, 10:23 PM
dreaminmel dreaminmel is offline
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Ok guys I am stumped...

I raised my Mg to 1600 two days ago (maintained at 1400 prior to that) and my pH has been at 8.5 for the past month. Mg tested w/ Salifert and pH monitored and verified w/ test for accuracy.

My bryopsis appears completely unphased...
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Params: Sg 1.026, Alk 11 dKH, Ca 440, Mg 1450, Ph 8.4, Temp 80*F
  #118  
Old 05/15/2007, 10:47 PM
TWallace TWallace is offline
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I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it's more than just magnesium that killed mine, though I don't know what else it could have been. What mag supplement did you use? I've reduced my mag back to normal levels and bryopsis isn't making a come back yet. I thought I found the silver bullet for this horrible algae . It has helped a few others beat it, though.
  #119  
Old 05/15/2007, 11:44 PM
illcssd illcssd is offline
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I'm not sure these guys having bad result's actually have bryopsis. It may be a different type of nuisance algae and just look somewhat like bryopsis. Thats what i think is going on with the unsuccessfull ness.
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  #120  
Old 05/16/2007, 01:21 AM
Peter Eichler Peter Eichler is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by illcssd
I'm not sure these guys having bad result's actually have bryopsis. It may be a different type of nuisance algae and just look somewhat like bryopsis. Thats what i think is going on with the unsuccessfull ness.
It's certainly possible. I've always felt that most of the people that have reported luck with herbivores and Bryopsis made a falde ID as well.

Perhaps there is another environmental factor that works along with the Mg in order for it to work. Maybe if there are enough nutrients in the water the Bryopsis can fight through the problems that Mg causes it.
  #121  
Old 05/16/2007, 02:11 AM
illcssd illcssd is offline
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That is certainaly possible peter. I figured people that got things to eat it were mis iding it because i have tried every critter or fish ever mentioned to eat bryopsis, and it never worked. So i assume that other people had some weird kind of hair algae.
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  #122  
Old 05/16/2007, 06:43 AM
dreaminmel dreaminmel is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by illcssd
I'm not sure these guys having bad result's actually have bryopsis. It may be a different type of nuisance algae and just look somewhat like bryopsis. Thats what i think is going on with the unsuccessfull ness.
What I have is definately bryopsis. I'll take a pic when I get home from work today. My system is low nutrient as well. I keep it that way as I have a mainly sps system. I have not found a single living organism that will eat this stuff. I don't have a bad outbreak. I've just always had two or three small patches that require manual removal for well over a year now.
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Params: Sg 1.026, Alk 11 dKH, Ca 440, Mg 1450, Ph 8.4, Temp 80*F
  #123  
Old 05/22/2007, 11:41 AM
Kolognekoral Kolognekoral is offline
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Partly to bump this back up to the runners, but, also, as I have tried raising my Mg to rid me of the few trouble spots of byropsis, I wish to report back to the hungry masses.

I do not have access to the DIY versions mentioned with Mag Flake (when I asked at the German DIY, they looked at me as if I had ten heads. I only have nine, thank you!), so I used Bio-Magnesium (an expensive alternative!). My Mg was pretty low, at around 960, despite my weekly water changes, and I had noted my Ca was too high (which I believed was from my DSB dissolving). Also, the pH was a bit low, as was the Alk.

Now, why am I telling you all of this? In raising the Mg, which I only managed to get to 1450 or so, I noted a drop in the Calcium level, by about 100ppm. The pH and the Alk seem to have stabilized, as well.

Does this mean there is a correllation between the amount of Mg to Ca? Does this connect to the acid condition which kept my pH and Alk low?

I do not know, but thought I would pass it on.

By the way, the byropsis is doing just fine!
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  #124  
Old 05/22/2007, 12:05 PM
RichConley RichConley is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by neelix
Well nothing nada so far. Its growing faster and according to the Sera Mg kit I am at 1620 and have been for over 24 hours
I have bryopsis. I killed my anemone a couple of weeks ago trying to cut him inhalf, and the nutrient issue caused the bryopsis to grow.

I pushed the magnesium up to 1650ish, and I havent seen ANY difference. If anything, its growing faster.

I definitely is bryopsis, too.
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  #125  
Old 05/22/2007, 05:31 PM
znut Reefer znut Reefer is offline
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RichConely, I have to ask why did you try to cut your anemone in half?

They split when they are ready to.
 

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