pappone and BLU Coral method

[MO Will]

OK friends

I have dosed twice - the last time was about 5 mL

I checked water parameters the next day - NO3 5, Phos undetectable by Merck test kit

I will keep everyone posted as I continue

Thanks

Will

[EnderG60]

Ok I have a few questions.

First off I am running a 58g tank and just getting into SPS(past 8 months or so)

I have a pretty high fish load and feed 3 times a day(2 pellets, once a mix of frozen foods)

I am about to make a new mix of food. I usually mix a few types of frozen(mysis, brine, bloodworms, cycloeeze, fish eggs) I am going to add some shrimp, clam and such blended to small chunks to the mix and then I saw this thread.

Now my nitrates are currently hovering around 2-5, phosphates 0-1, I get decent growth, and very good polyp extention(as i dose reef plus and reef trace through auto top off)

So Im wondering a few things, would adding the pappone to my existing food mix be of any help?

Does it have to be dosed at night?

If not can I increase the dose(slowly over time) and do it once a week rather then 4-5 times a week?

And seeing as I already employ a coil denitrator, would adding the sugar to the mix(or even just the fish food) help?

I like to see my corals happy and growing by im also very lazy and would love to be able to combine steps.

[Henry Bowman]

Your nitrates are getting up there, indicating that all the food you are currently putting in your tank may not be taken out in a reasonable time by your skimmer. If your corals look good, I would not change anything at least until the trates come down.

[EnderG60]

HA, they are down(from 40+ range). After adding the denitrator(still fine tuning that) and cleaning out the fuge and adding a filter sock Im pretty pleased so far. That and my phosphates only get over 0 when i forget to change the media in the reactor..go figure.

[Henry Bowman]

Sounds like you are heading in the right direction..... That filter sock is going to keep you from getting the Nitrates near 0 unless you clean it almost daily especially if you are adding the food indicated. The sock will just catch the remaining particles and they'll "composte" right there.

Is there a reason that you are running the sock? I put one on my tank when I blow the rock off and clean up but then remove it a few hours later.

Again, I wouldnt change much at all regarding what you are feeding if you are getting good polyp extension and everything looks happy. I too have a tendency to want to change things hoping that my corals will grow faster etc when in reality, things look great. Just keep the same feeding regimen for now, get the denitrator tuned in and check back with us in a while.

[Henry Bowman]

Sounds like you are heading in the right direction..... That filter sock is going to keep you from getting the Nitrates near 0 unless you clean it almost daily especially if you are adding the food indicated. The sock will just catch the remaining particles and they'll "composte" right there.

Is there a reason that you are running the sock? I put one on my tank when I blow the rock off and clean up but then remove it a few hours later.

Again, I wouldnt change much at all regarding what you are feeding if you are getting good polyp extension and everything looks happy. I too have a tendency to want to change things hoping that my corals will grow faster etc when in reality, things look great. Just keep the same feeding regimen for now, get the denitrator tuned in and check back with us in a while.

[EnderG60]

I am running the sock because I would get nitrate spikes due to the settling detritus in the fuge. After cleaning it out they would drop almost 20 points for about 6 months.

and while nitrates of 0 would be great im not gonna hold my breath on that happening for this system. A 58g with 10 fish, a huge anemone and heaving feeding. I plan to counter the nitrates with tons of light and flow. Im not looking for perfection(its to much work ), just good results.

I wonder if tossing a hermit in the sock would help....

[Henry Bowman]

EnderG60,

Sounds like a good plan. Dunno if the hermit would make it or not....;-) they're pretty fiesty. May claw a hole through the sock.

Good Luck !

[DarkXerox]

yeah I gave up on the socks for the same reason, you really have to clean them every day to have a beneficial effect. I tend to only run them when I'm doing a "big clean" of the tank with a turkey baster so it catches all the kicked up detritus.

Plus you can feed pappone with one in!

The main reason that it gets fed at night is because most of the corals tend to have their polyps out during night, plus it keeps the fish from eating it all (although mine tend to be able to see even when it is dark).

[africangrey]

Can someone copy and paste the lastest peppone method here? or direct me to the page# on this thread, and where you guys get amino acid suppliment if needed, thanks.

[Fishbulb2]

Originally posted by Serioussnaps
If you are adding glutamine you are adding yeasts and other additives. Glutamine sold as supplements in the US are full of additives....hence, c sources......pure pure pure and truly pure glutamine is tough to find.

I wouldn't think glutamine is particularly hard to get. It's $40 for 100g of it at Sigma Aldrich. That's a bit expensive but probably much cheaper per gram of active ingredient compared to pills with mostly fillers. It's not a controlled substance so they should sell it to anyone who wants it. It's also >99% pure based on thin-layer chromatography. Anyways, I have some pure glycine, arginine, and glutamine from the lab i'm going to test out this week. My SPS tend to look like crap and I've never seen any polyp extension on any one of them. They grow fine but very slowly and with no polyp extension. If one of these amino acids is enough to do the trick, I'll be quite pleasantly shocked! If not, well then I guess my tank probably has a few other issues that should be addressed first. Anyways, I think this will be fun.
FB

[africangrey]

Has anyone have any experience with Salifer's Coarlline AminoAcids. Here is the link:
http://www.reefermadness.us/DryGoodsPages/SAL038.htm

[mkbtank]

How does this method effect the addition of Phytoplankton or Rotifeast? Should I continue to dose with them as well, or stop now that I am trying this method? I have stopped to be safe, but want to know what is "Correct"

Thanks.

[Fishbulb2]

probably no need to dose any other food with the pappone. It is already a huge amount of food. I wouldn't think anything else is necessary. Well, I tried lab grade glutamine and l-arginine and didn't get any polyp extension in my sps. Not say it definitely doesn't work, but it's certainly no magic bullet. It certainly not an automatic response. I will try glycine tonight. Again, i've never had much polyp extension to begin with, so I wasn't too surprised.

[mkbtank]

Thanks for the answer fishbulb2.

[DarkXerox]

fishbulb, if you have some time and are bored, try out some luria-bertani media, I haven't had time to use it, but a couple people have mentioned that it smells exactly like some of the reef amino supplements. Don't use the agar of course haha, just the broth. We were thinking that it would be a good idea to sterilize it in the autoclave as if you were pouring out culture tubes/plates.

[Fishbulb2]

Ha, thanks for the tip. I'll try that. I may also have some fetal-bovine serum I could try. I could put either in the UV hood first to sterilize it.

[DarkXerox]

Yeah, I dunno if BSA is the best thing to add. I just figured that since LB broth has basically the perfect nutrient load to grow bacteria. However, you should probably make your own with tryptone and yeast extract, then leave out the NaCl since you don't want to throw off your salinity.

[africangrey]

Not really sure if Vodka is used by the people here who adapted the pappone method, if so can you post your findings.

[mkbtank]

I would like to check in and report that I began this method (to the letter) 6 weeks ago. I have a 180 with a good skimmer, 75G fuge, many sps frags from RC members (Just getting into sps), some softies, a yellow striped maroon clown (Who lives in a giant leather), a large foxface, and a show size Sohal Tang. Also, a calcium reactor and about 175 lbs of live rock.

I dose with tropic Marin A and K and feed the tank every other day. I started slow with the pappone mix (1 for the first 2 weeks) and have gradually moved to every 2 to 3 days. I have seen 1 tiny growth in 1 spot of hair algae. But small, and only in 1 spot.

My nitrates have always been at least 20 (Even with water changes every week). SO...... this morning, after not doing a water change for 2 weeks, I tested my nitrates, and...... for the first time ever.......ZERO NITRATES!!

Also, every Frag (at least 15) has shown better color (Starting when I began Tropic Marin) and is showing growth.

Just for today life is good!!!!!! no nitrates

[fatrip]

hey guys i was wondering if any one knows, what amino acids does somatropin break down into after it is either frozen or enters the water colume? thanks

[rickkott13]

Is there a expire time for the food storing in the freezer?

[mkbtank]

Can anyone tell me: Are you NOT supposed to run a PhosPhate reactor while using this method?

Thanks

[jessezm]

Never thought about that until today... I DO run a phosphate reactor. But I also have been dosing extra sugar during the day to make sure a food source remains for the bacteria. My water is clearer than ever and my skimmate is nastier than ever. Corals look great, too, but there has seemed to have been a slow down in growth lately. I think it is related to flow, though, as the corals have increased their mass, and I am looking into increased flow options (Vortechs) in the near future...

[stony_corals]

Unless you're skimmer isn't well sized, you shouldn't need to run GFO. Bacteria will utilize the O in PO4 just as they do with NO3....