Amphiprion ocellaris "Halfblack" (Halfblack Ocellaris Clownfish) Breeding Log!

[mwp]

First, let me kick off this latest breeding log with a HUGE thanks to Joe L. for making this entire "journey" possible...Joe, let's see where this crazy pair of fish takes us...I'm sure there's something to be learned from these oddballs!

2nd, let me state that this is starting off as a duplicate posting of a post I've placed on www.rareclownfish.com. Of course, this being the Fish Breeding Forum of Reef Central, I know these two threads will quickly diverge.

And for those of you who are more than keeping track, YES, I am officially "OVER BUDGET" with clown pairs and technically not enough tanks to house them, so for now, this mutant pair's arrival means that our Allardi and regular Black Ocellaris pair get to cohabitate a while longer. TECHNICALLY I can move our Black OC's to the 6 gallon that's currently holding our 4 baby Onyx Percs...of course I now have 2 young Black Saddles as well that were going to go there. Looks like my regular Black OC's may go back on the market (or into a breeder net) depending on how this experiment pans out.

So, my last tangental comment - we are officially FILLED TO CAPACITY with broodstock fish in my book! OK, there's room for a neon goby mate for our loner and a Yellowhead Jawfish mate for the other lone fish, but otherwise, unless some fish depart, NO MORE NEW FISH!

On with the thread!

-----

I am one of those folks who HATES things like misbars, teardrop tomatoes, picasso perculas, snowflakes, naked clownfish etc. I'm always the first one to support breeding that furthers the security and safetly of natural species over ornamental varients. STUBBY ocellaris? STUBBIES? I can't stand the thought of a fish with a deformity as pronounced as missing vertebrae to be considered "desireable".

Of course, like some many of use, sometimes we come across something that's simply so striking that we find ourselves being more than hypocritcal. Case in point, my latest clownfish addition, a pair of "Halfblack" Ocellaris.

The short story - these 2 fish are 2 of four siblings produced in only one batch among many batches of Black Ocellaris raised by Joe Lichtenbert. (sibling #3 is a swirling durbish that simply swims in loops...not possible to breed with, and sibling #4 basically looks more like an ocellaris that has dusky coloration). [ I should also point out here that the smaller fish lived in a cubicle with the tornado fish, while the larger one was in the cubicle next door. Most likely, based on this "time together", I don't think pairing these two up will be problematic at all. As of just a few hours in the tank, they already seem to be bonded. ]

After my recent visit a couple weeks ago, and perhaps due to my experience with breeding and wholesaling African Cichlids, we got to talking about ongoing breeding programs etc. I mentioned to him that while I personally somewhat despise the though of "naked clowns" and the like, he has this pair of fish in his systems that stood out amoung the literal tens of thousands of Clownfish he has running around, and "if I were running the hatchery, I'd be pairing them up just to see what comes out of them". To Joe, I guess these were just "culls" that he couldn't part with, to me, these are arguably one of the most stunning pairs of "freaky" ocellaris I've ever seen. Of course, now they're MY responsibility!

So, we know these are thrown from Darwin Strains (aka. Black Ocellaris). Of course, they look like they could be the progeny of a Black OC + Reg Oc. cross, except that Joe keeps PHENOMENAL records and knows EXACTLY where these fish came from. His feeling is that they'll take 6-12 months to spawn, and most likely they'll just color up slowly into regular black Ocellaris. Most likely, they'll simply THROW black ocellaris offspring.

Of course, I'm REALLY, REALLY hoping that this is some sort of mutation or throwback that could be fixed by mating these siblings together...Halfblack / Red-Chested Ocellaris, these almost put my Allardis to shame (note, I said "almost"). The intensity of color and size on these fish has me kinda leaning towards these guys NOT getting more black down the road, but rather staying relatively similar to how they appear now. Afterall, the other gadzillion siblings they have have all colored up NORMALLY, in fact most of RPI's Darwin Ocellaris are almost fully black at 3/4"!

I welcome any and all thoughts, especially from folks who are breeding Black Ocellaris. I've simply never seen anything like these before.











My final thoughts - Joe says 6 months to 1 year before this pair of fish breeds IF all goes well. Personally, I'm shooting for MARCH OR APRIL!!! Let's see if I can get them going!

Matt

[tanglovers]

Very interesting fish, interested in knowing what they color up as once they are adults. Joe is a great guy, was fortunate enough to get a tour of his facility last April during IMAC. When I was first looking into clown breeding. Now just working on getting my feet wet

Good luck with them.

[mwp]

OK, there's a "BTW" thought to this thread. While Joe keeps phenomenal records, and he knows these fish were incubated and parented by the Black Ocellaris Pair, there is one very small "catch", and that is that the Black Ocellaris broodstock pairs are on the same system as MANY regular Ocellaris pairs. IS it possible, however highly unlikely, that perhaps the Black Ocellaris pair and a regular Ocellaris pair were spawning at the same time within the system, and that regular Ocellaris milt traveled through the drain, filtration, and UV sterilizer and somehow fertilized a few Black Ocellaris eggs?



Just a crazy thought, but one that hit me this evening while admiring this pair of fish, and since I've only read about, but never seen hybrids between the Black OC and regular OC varieties, I can only speculate what their offspring look like...

Matt

[SuperNerd]

Nice. I didn't know they came in that variety.

[mwp]

Originally posted by tanglovers
Very interesting fish, interested in knowing what they color up as once they are adults. Joe is a great guy, was fortunate enough to get a tour of his facility last April during IMAC. When I was first looking into clown breeding. Now just working on getting my feet wet

Good luck with them.

Thanks Tanglover. The interesting part to me is that they are relatively "adults"...definitely not juveniles, relatively late teenagers if anything. I suspect more black could show up as it did on my onyx percs, but the reality is that if these are truly pure black OC's, they are abberant fish to say the very least...they're double the size of my regular Black OC pair (which, BTW, already looks like they're gonna try to spawn, at least they're cleaning a space and the female looks gravid like my female Onyx Perc gets, but they're so "darn" young yet!). FWIW, the fish in the background are 1.5 to 2 year old Bangaii's (good for a size reference).

Matt

[mwp]

Originally posted by SuperNerd
Nice. I didn't know they came in that variety.

First I've ever seen myself, thus why they're now in my tank since Joe wasn't interested in tinkering with 'em (I guarantee he has his hands more than full!).

I'm REALLY curious to see what these guys throw...regular Black OC babies won't be a disappointement anyway...

Matt

[tanglovers]

Cool, did not realize they were that old....guess it makes sense if you are expecting them to spawn that soon.

What are you feeding your fish lol....everything is working on spawning....

[keefsama2003]

what are you doing with your black occ's ?

i have had mine a few months but they came in as juvi's from darwin and have colored up nicely but my small male looks / looked like yours for a while but the black has since really shot thru it and started to take over.

i have my pair in a 300gal tank with a powder blue tang / passer angel / queen angel / pair of bar gobies / pair of neon damsels and thats it for fish.

any suggestions as far as helping things along and good luck.

[mwp]

Keefsama, I'm really not sure what you're asking? "Technically", these halfblacks are "Black OC's". My actual Black OC pair is in a different tank...2 different "projects" going at the same time.

I personally have no advice...I haven't bred either of these yet, only the Onyx percs.

Matt

[Luis A M]

Originally posted by mwp
His feeling is that they'll take 6-12 months to spawn, and most likely they'll just color up slowly into regular black Ocellaris. Most likely, they'll simply THROW black ocellaris offspring.

I agree completely with Joe on this.Even if they don´t turn black,they will just be miscoloured Darwins.See the "first "dorsal fin,broad and low as in perculas but with the ray count of ocellaris.

Even if we like to think otherwise (and sometimes argue about that )genetic,inheritable mutations in clownfish were never documented.Not even an albino fish after 40 years and millions of fish produced.
Why this is so different with FW fish (and all other captive reproduced animals)escapes to me

[mwp]

What about the "snowflake" perculas Luis? What about the assertion by some that the "Onyx Percula" as well as possibly the Darwin Ocellaris are actually human-fixed strains?

Heck, I'll be plenty happy if they simply throw regular old black ocellaris babies Something just tells me that might not quite be the case..

Matt

[Kmiec123]

very cool addition Matt, Will be interesting to fallow....Carl

[Luis A M]

Originally posted by mwp
What about the "snowflake" perculas Luis? What about the assertion by some that the "Onyx Percula" as well as possibly the Darwin Ocellaris are actually human-fixed strains?

Heck, I'll be plenty happy if they simply throw regular old black ocellaris babies Something just tells me that might not quite be the case..

Matt

To the best of my knowledge picassos,snowflakes et al.are extreme cases of misbarring.Onyx and Darwins are natural populations.
Yeah,we all like to think we are creating a new gorgeous strain

[mwp]

Some updates on the pair....

After returning home from Vegas, the "male" in this pair looked a bit rough around the edges. Another clownfish living in the tank (I had a small pair of black saddles in a breeder net) kicked the bucket during our trip.

The male had Cloudy slime, a few spots of ich, ragged fins...something was up. This evening I gave both the male and female freshwater dips to clear them off. The male got 15 minutes, the female 12. What's puzzling is that the UV had just been replaced a week or two prior and it's "oversized" considering the tank volume. Hopefully things will clear up and return to normal.

After seeing this post, I'm not 100% convinced that these clowns will turn out to be anything "special"....in this thread what starts out almost looking like an onyx perc turns into a fully recognizeable black ocellaris...

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=994121

Very interesting....

Matt

[mwp]

12-29-06 - The little guy seems to have finally shrugged off what was ailing him (Ich, Possibly Oodinium and more...)

So I think our "halfblacks" are definitely heading in the direction of regular Black Ocellaris. The changes made to the fish are diet and environment...hard to say what prevented them from coloring up (black-wise) at Joes (RPI) vs. now that they're here. Anyway, look back at 11-28 (when we added them) and a month later...





FWIW,

Matt

[Hattie B]

Wow what a difference. You think it just taking them a lot longer to get fully to the full black coloration.

BTW-loved the GBG thread..

[Kmiec123]

Matt, What was in the tank with them at Joe's? If perc's maybe an environmental thing held up the color change...Just a thought...Carl

[mwp]

Kmeic, at Joe's there were pretty much in their own cubicles. Joe doesn't have any Percs currently.

FWIW,

Matt

[mwp]

1-10-07 - well, this pair continues to throw surprise after surprise at me. Today, our female has decided to spend the day digging a PIT IN THE SAND?!

It currently looks like a little dish...she sits on the bottom, waggles her body back and forth, thus creating the depression. I have NO CLUE. Started another thread to see if anyone else knows - http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...readid=1014905

Matt

[mwp]

Well, just a quick update. I need to post new pics again, as they're pretty much looking like solid Black Ocellaris now - the female is starting to lose the orange on her chest. I also noticed compared to the late December pics, the male's ventral fins are now solid black.

One other note, for the last week they've been getting closer and closer to the Red Cynaria in the tank...as of today I think it's safe to say that they're now hosting in it.

Matt

[mwp]

1-11-07 - basically 2 weeks since the last pictures and WOW talk about a change!









FWIW,

Matt

[mwp]

1-14-07 - came home this evenign to find the pair hanging out in the cave by their "cynaria" home...they are vigorously defending it from the cardinalfish. I also noticed some brief cleaning activity occuring in the rocks in the cave, and the female is FAT. I would not be all that surprised to see a spawn in the next few weeks on this pair. Their offspring will get at least one chance at growing up, just to see how they turn out. If the results look promising, I may got a few more batches to see how "good" this pair throws.

It's also worth mentioning that I took a closer look at Joe L's Black Ocellaris juvies this evening when visiting and noticed that MANY of his Black Ocellaris in a tank of 3 month old fish (part of the batch that I got my replacement Black OC male from)...well, they all had DEEP ORANGE snouts. Those that weren't fully black yet also exhibited a deep orange base coloration, just like this halfblack pair used to. No TAN snouts, all vibrant OC orange.

Joe also related some additional info from another breeder who has a pair of Reg. Ocellaris X Black Ocellaris - according to this breeder, the offspring of that pairing all appear as regular ocellaris....

All sorts of interesting info for the "former Halfblack" pair this evening. I wonder when I'll concede and just start calling them my 2nd "Black" Ocellaris pair.

FWIW,

Matt

[mwp]

1-21-07 - 7 weeks since this pair arrived here and they've gone from being halfblacks to pretty much full on Black Ocellaris. The female is WICKED FAT. I keep thinking "any day now" that they *could* spawn. Here's the latest pics!





Really, the only thing remaining as any clue to their former "halfblack" nature is the orange in the female's ventral fins...that looks like it will be the last bit of orange to disappear from the pair.

BTW, it's also worth mentioning that the lighting on this tank was switched last weekend from 150 watt HQI 10k, to the same, but 14k.

MP

[mwp]

1-25-07 - so it's a little while later and they're even "more black" than they were 4 days ago LOL! The female looks like she swallowed a golf ball or something! A new habit, she's taken up 'hosting' on a rock with some hair algae..she'll sit there and at times even just LIE DOWN like she's resting in an anenome or something...it looks beyond wierd, but after a minute she'll just perk back up and swim around, chase away the other fish in the area, then take another catnap in the hair algae. Truth be told, I think she may be selecting this as a nesting site. My ONLY concern is that she could be egg-bound and actually having some difficulties. Of course, nothing seems normal with this pair of fish, digging pits, starting out as half-blacks etc.

Here's some pix!













Any thoughts?

Matt

[Kathy55g]

Yup, she could lay eggs tomorrow! Have they been cleaning? Is there an ovipositer visible?