Not a typical doctor's waiting room... 450 gallon reef

[bbehring]

what are your options at this point for controlling the temp in your absence, or did I miss them?

[gkarshens]

Wow! Somehow I got unsubscribed to this thread about 2 weeks ago and I just caught up. I hope this gets worked out for you soon!

[thedude15810]

There is an A/C vent in the tank room so our options for cooling the tank for now are to pray that the A/C is cranked. I've disabled the halides completely and have the VHO's to turn off at 80.

I still don't think we have the promised portable A/C unit and I don't really expect the problem to be fixed by them as evidenced by their current track record. Our options upon them not completing the work on their new timeline are to;

1. Buy a chiller and pump to feed the chiller
2. Hire another A/C company to finish the work.*

*The construction company continues to say how they need some part that isn't here yet. I cannot believe that any legitimate company that services A/C units would take this long to get ANYTHING. If this was the air conditioner in my house, I'd be out for blood if I lived for 2 weeks sans A/C.

[martinphillip03]

Sorry to here about the setback. Will the air conditioner be running on Sundays?
or 24/07/365?
Marty

[thedude15810]

I assume the air conditioner will be running 24/7/365 because if it wasn't going to be, Mike would have definitely caught it. The tank is supposed to have its own AC unit that only someone in the tank room can turn on or off.

[Brandan]

wow. . . wow, did i say wow already, and guess what . . . IT DOESNT EVEN HAVE CORALS YET!!! Awesome setup. . .

[cbui2]

sound just like all construction workers all they do down here is collect deposit and work on your place for about another week or so and then tell customer we are waiting for some more supplies and called when they come in but never seen them again..sorry to hear about your setbacks. I am pretty sure you will do the right thing so later on you don't have to worried about your livestock or any fatality..great setup so far..do you have any UV sterilizer I was plan on installing one of them but undecided which one to choose from. leaning toward aquaviolet uv

[jnarowe]

I think part of the issue here is that when doing a publically viewed tank we tend to put livestock in before the tank system and cycle process are fully vetted. It would have been better to drape the tank and go through the cycle process and system checks in a more systematic manner, but hind-sight is 20/20.

With the snail die-off you will probably have elevated nitrate and phophate levels and it will take some time to get that stabilized. I would skim wet, do water changes, and adjust your temperature control system while leaving the tank inhabitants as they are. You will still probably experience an algal issue especially with the large die-off. Perhaps cutting back on lighting for a while will help though.

Relying on the building AC may be a mistake in general. First of all, you don't know what the air quality is and what its oxygen content is. Second, the air must go somewhere. In other words, if you are replacing warm tank room air with cooler forced air, the warm air needs some place to escape, otherwise you will not actually cool the tank room. With the door and the hood closed, where can the warm air go? The forced air will find a path of lesser resistance, which will be an adjacent room. For cool air to replace the tank room air, either a vent to the outside needs to be installed, or possibly a louvered vent in the TOP of the tank room door. Hopefully in that case there would be a return in the waiting room that would draw the warm air out.

Because this install is internal to a commercial building, you may have no other choice than to install a chiller if you cannot figure out how to use the AC vent properly. And when the building needs heat, won't the tank room get heated too?

[maxxII]

Good point Jonathan...but the chiller exhaust will need to be vented too.....
That would be easier to accomplish, but still...

Nick

[jnarowe]

True. Chiller can be remote installed though, or put in a housing with ventillation to the outside.

[thedude15810]

Jonathan and Max,

All sound points that I'll address but first I would like to add that they did bring out a portable A/C unit today. Bad news, is that it really doesn't have an outlet that won't trip a circuit and everything in the tank room (including our reservoirs) needs to be taken out so that they can caulk around the baseboards (ughh why not do that in the first place).

I completely agree that publicly viewed aquariums are almost always stocked too quickly. The main problem we ran into on this project, is that the tank was supposed to have 1 month of time with water and live rock in it before the office opened. We had literally 3 days. I'd also like to say that I don't think a curtain would work because even with nothing in the tank, little kids gathered around it hoping to see something (much like an elusive public aquarium exhibit).

Temperature, elevated nitrates (or nirtrogenous compounds in general), and phosphates are all going to play into this algae bloom. The crappy part is that I have no way to get to my Deltec reactor full of Rowa to test the effluent. I agree that a serious of large water changes are in order but I also don't want to shock the system with too much fresh saltwater. Also remember this is a new building and having already used 5 RO/DI prefilters, I'm not entirely confident with the water being produced. The product water is 0 TDS but it still makes me leary.

Building A/C is what we're relying on currently but remember, the tank room is supposed to have its own unit and thermostat. I also forgot to mention something big, it does have a large exhuast fan. The cold air dumps on the long end of the tank through the A/C duct while the exhuast fan pulls from near the door of the tank room. This should keep the cold air circulating sufficiently and keep the humidity down. Also, since the tank is on the highest floor when it gets cold, we'll just turn off the A/C entirely (or us it at a low setting) and let the tank room cool itself.

The basic reason why an A/C unit was chosen originally over a chiller was the fact that a chiller can be added at a later date... an A/C cannot.

The huge problem with adding a chiller at this stage is that I'm afraid of overloading a breaker. We did a very good job balancing the load but something as large as a chiller might throw the entire electrical into array.

John

PS: I really do appreciate ya'lls input as it forces me to think in new and creative ways. If you see something that you would change please feel free to say so and include why you'd do it that way.

[thedude15810]

Cbui,

Sorry I missed your question in my first response but no, we are not running a UV on this reef. I personally believe that a UV kills too much beneficial plankton in the water of an established reef. I do however run one on our fish system and love the Aqua UV units (with wiper). Do be careful when you install them to use a little silicon lube on the oring connections as we've had them leak before.

John

[samson78945]

amazing! i think i just choose wut i want my next tank to be!!!

[jnarowe]

strange that it got so hot with an exhaust fan installed. I don't really understand how that is possible.

as far as a curtain goes, I was more thinking about completely hiding the entire tank, stand, etc. either with some kind of cloth/tarp or even just a tacked up plywood wall. Doesn't matter at this point anyway.

Another idea to consider is to seal off the building AC vent entirely and draw from the waiting room. This would keep moisture from migrating to other parts of the building as well as keep the sound isolated and remove the uncertainty of the AC system. The air in the waiting room will be much more constant than what comes out of the AC vent. My tank room goes between about 76F and 80F and so does my tank. I allow outside air in and the exhaust fan kicks on based on room temp. With your outdoor temps. being much higher, the waiting room temp. may be more reliable than anything else.

Just some thoughts as I know you are dealing with some tough issues while working within the constraints of a publicly occupied building along with codes, etc.

[mcrist]

Originally posted by gkarshens
Wow! Somehow I got unsubscribed to this thread about 2 weeks ago and I just caught up. I hope this gets worked out for you soon!

I got bumped too, what happened?

[technoshaman]

Looks great despite the small setbacks guys. Haven't been by the store since January but looks like you've been busy!

If you want the names of any reliable A/C or Power people in Austin drop me a pm here or give me a ring. I may have missed it but what size circuits are they running on? Might just want to invest in another 20amp or even a 30 amp circuit for expansion if a chiller is in the works sometime down the road.

-MP

[jnarowe]

really a good point. if you are already at max for electrical circuits, that could be a huge problem down the line. I added 100 amps to my tank room and am using it all. Never thought that would happen!!

I know it wouldn't be cheap to run another line in, but it may take a few headaches away. Maybe there is enough current at the sub panel already and it wouldn't be a big deal.

[thedude15810]

Ok I've got a couple positives and a couple negatives to report today (as we went back out again, you can't say I'm not trying).

Positives:

The tank room is now caulked (albeit rather poorly). We moved the reservoirs out (no easy task!) and they sealed the tank room.

The portable a/c unit is hooked up and on. The tank and reception rooms were unbearably hot and the tank was running 80 degrees with just VHO's. We unplugged the halides from the third breaker and let the a/c unit take that plug.

Cabinets should be up Saturday or skulls will be cracked.

The tank DEFINITELY looked better today with less smell and better water clarity. The remaining fish looked stable and I think the mass snail die off has stopped.

Negatives:

The caulk job was sloppy (much like every other project), concrete dust is still present, we wasted 150 gallons of water, the cabinets are not up and finally the A/C still isn't installed like it should be.

There are no clowns in the tank anymore. The dead list caused by the contruction company's negligence now includes;

(1) XL Blonde Naso Tang (with the beginnings of streamers)
(2) Female McCosker's Wrasses
(3) Royal Grammas
(4) True Percula Clownfish
(1) Rainford's Goby (he's gone)
(150) Various Snails

[maxxII]

If they signed a contract with the Medical building/ Thedude....and they havent completed their end of the agreement which caused the death of the fish and snails....I'd send 'em a bill for the amount of expenses....

Or better yet, withold that amount from the final payment.

Glad to hear that progress is being made...

Nick

[jnarowe]

I don't think I would allow any construction people near the tank again.

[GSMguy]

wow somehow i was unsubscribed
too bad about the fish
that black clown was a beauty too bad its gone

keep working on it take it slow/make sure construction crews didnt kill everything

[Dudester]

Originally posted by maxxII
If they signed a contract with the Medical building/ Thedude....and they havent completed their end of the agreement which caused the death of the fish and snails....I'd send 'em a bill for the amount of expenses....

This is certainly the plan. We're waiting for a final death toll before submitting a bill, as I'd like to do it in one fell swoop. Thanks for your (and everyone's) input. I have all the confidence in the world that this tank will be as magnificent as we had initially planned.

[jnarowe]

GL with that. It's hard to collect on stuff like that but if you end up with a judgement, I can coach you on how to actually collect. Not sure what the rules are in TX but typically it's easy to get a small claims judgement but there is no court mechanism to force the defendant to actually pay.

I know how to do it based on extensive research and successful collecting. I collected form a career scammer. He had defrauded more than a dozen people/businesses that we found out about and no one had ever collected until he screwed with me.

When I was done with him (about 1 year later), the Sheriff seized about 3 x the judgement amount to cover it and my other collection "expenses". Those included my hourly fees. That was a little different in that is was intentional fraud, but in your case the contractor will do his level best not to make good on the damage done.

I have no problem coaching anyone who is having trouble collecting on a judgement and consider it good kharma to help others in this area. The key to it is the "Writ of Execution on Personal Property". Most attorneys that I have come into contact with have never heard of this, but it is the key document in the collection process. When properly processed through the court, it will direct the Sheriff to seize the defendents property to pay for damages. Rather than have the Sheriff take his truck, the contractor will opt to pay in cash. I have plenty more advice/experience to pass along on this subject...but that's for another forum!!

[bbehring]

Jonathan, write a short little book and post it!

[jnarowe]

I should but I am so busy. Also each case has its special merits to consider.