Seahorses Possibly Saved.

[Skybase]

I recently was given the surprising opportunity to "adopt" 3 seahorses from my LFS.

The reason being, that I had purchased 1 seahorse (the yellow seahorses that I see all over the board here, can't remember the technical name offhand) from them, and have wonderful success stories, as to how it'll chase frozen Mysis or Brine shrimp around the tank, releasing from it's hitch heading down/up current to catch them, etc. He's been VERY happy.

Anyhow, the seahorses that were with mine at the LFS were slowly becoming darker, and the last time I visited were almost all black. I guess they've not been eating at all there.

so I talked the owner into letting me adopt them, and the very first night, one of the seahorses returned to a pretty bright yellow color. But I hadn't noticed any of them really eating at all. Now as of yesterday that other one is chasing frozen Mysis or Brine around just as my other one was (these are Live Captured, unfortunately. ..)

The other two I haven't really seen eating, although tonight I"m seeing that one of them has lightened up quite a bit, and seems to be interested in the food now. She just doesn't really chase it, and it's kinda drifting too fast for her to just grab. I think she's going to get it tho. .I"m seeing that happy tone of yellow shining through too.

Now I just have the one left taht I'm really worried about. .I'm hatching some live Brine Shrimp to see if that will be more tempting right now, but it seems to move around happily, and will seemingly interact with the other seahorses, but is still a very dark color, and VERY skinny. . .has no interest in food yet. . .so I'm not sure how this one will turn out.

I guess I'm pretty surprised, as I feel as though I'm still kinda a novice in keeping Saltwater, however these are doing amazingly well in my tank. The LFS's tank seems MUCH more appropriate to me, with much more established reef life, adequate current, better filtering maybe even. . .but they did horribly.

Well, I would think they're environment would be much better, although I really wonder about the owner as well. He usually doesn't even sell seahorses, as he talks about (and teaches his employees) how short of a life-span these animals have. He swears to the "fact" that they only live up to 6-8 months usually, and that you can't get attached. So he only orders them for display. (Unless he really trusts you, which he must me)

Anyhow. .I've never noticed any to be around that long in his shop. . .so I'd researched, and found that they usually live much longer than this.

When I went in to adopt these creatures, and told him how they were so dark, and mine was still yellow, he tried telling me at first that they are supposed to do this as they age. But then returned, and after me telling him that I know about this, but that they turn dark as they're dying, he finally agreed, and then agreed to my adoption of these creatures.

Sorry for such a long-winded post, but just wanted to express my intense excitement that I'm doing so well with these creatures. I've had freshwater tanks for a couple of years, but have only had this saltwater tank for about 4-5 months. But I really do look into anything that I have questions about frequently.

Oh. .another surprise to this tank is that my seahorses are actually living in the tank with my Figure 8 Puffer. . .yes, I know this would be quite a dangerous and possibly stupid arrangement, but I know my puffer. He's the most docile fish you can imagine. (both him and my Violet Goby) He won't eat snails even if the shell's partially crushed. Only frozen krill, while it's still floating in the tank. So anyhow, he's NEVER given any look to any of these seahorses (and NONE of my other fish have). When I just had the one, I watched closely. . .He'll just totally ignore them,a nd has lately been rsesting right alongside my violet goby at night. . .very interesting. . .

alright. . .guess I'm done w/ my thoughts for now. . .Hehe. . .I'll post more as I think of it, I'm sure. . .


If you're actually reading this part of the post, I thank you for hanging in there!!

[CoralCaper]

Hello there Skybase. I'm very happy to hear how everything was going, but we need an update! How are the 3 new arrivals doing now?

[Skybase]

Theyr'e doing quite well, actually. Hehe. . .well, here's the situation.

They are all still alive.
Seahorse #1Originally purchased) is as good as ever. Yellow, and chasing food throughout the tank whenever it can.
Seahorse #2Turned Yellow the First Night) Is still doing just as well, and is now chasing food throughout the tank as vigorously as #1. The Yellow goes from an amazing yellow, to a more slightly whitish yellow, but VERY slightly.
Seahorse #3Turned a lighter color, with slight yellow on ends) is still just that. I do see more yellow in this one, however it's mostly a whitish color if anything. It does actively swim around the tank, catching a ride on my Hydrometer as it drifts downcurrent, then will carry it back up the current, to ride it yet again. Haven't seen any active feeding with this Seahorse, but it doesn't seem quite as thin as it was when I'd gotten it. Perhaps eating at night, or something of the sort. This one has been seen to be almost as yellow as the others a couple of times, but always returns to it's original color.

Seahorse #4: (The darkest brown, and least likely to survive from the beginning) is still alive, but still looking pretty dark. It is looking a little fatter as well, but I never see it eating, and it still doesn't cruise the tank like the other 3. It will move from location to location, and fight for a hitching post with the others, but other than that, doesn't seem interested at ALL in food as it "swims" by. . Still worried about this one. Luckily there's plenty of space, and lots of hitching posts in the tank for them all.

They pretty much all LOVE riding on the Hydrometer, taking it to the very spout of my main pump, then spiraling back downstream with it, and then carrying it back up. It's very cute, and they'll take turns, doing it all the time. They're quite tame, and will actually attach to my finger at times as well, to be taken slowly around the tank on my finger. They really seem to like that. (All except for #4)

I've been recently enriching the Frozen Brine/Mysis with Poe (I think that's what it's called, I suddenly cant' remember, and am too lazy to walk out there and check) and they dont' seem to mind the difference in flaver/smell. I hope it's doing them well.

Thanks for your interest, CoralCaper. I wasn't too sure if anyone was interested in the tale, so I've kinda kept from updating anyone as to what's going on.

[FishGrrl]

There is so much to say I don't know where to begin.

The first most important thing is that you need to get them eating the proper food now. The longer you wait, the more likely their digestive tract will completely shut down and you won't be able to do anything to save them.

These seahorses are in all likelyhood wild caught seahorses that don't know that the food you are offering is, well, food. Starving them, which is a common method used to encourage them to eat, is probably the worst thing you can do. It will cause them to be weaker, less interested in food, and more prone to infection. The reason they're probably ignoring the food is they just don't know its food.

What you need to do is get them some live food; either small ghost shrimp, amphipods, mysis shrimp, or red shrimp. This can be rather difficult to find at local stores but you should look. Also try bait shops. Then try local rivers, streams, and lakes with a net. Amphipods aka gammarus aka scuds can often be found among algae covered rocks near the shore. They look like little bugs. Sometimes you can even find them in the foam pads in your filters. If you feed the freshwater amphipods, then do it in a controlled area like a breeders net so you can fish out the dead bodies.

Baby brine shrimp will likely not do anything for them. Its rumored some extremely small snouted seahorses will take them, but I've only seen fry and dwarves take it. If you have access to live adult brine you can try it, but enrich, which it sounds like you're already doing. However, aside from having nominal nutritional value even enriched, many seahorses won't eat live brine because it is a foreign food. They don't move like normal shrimp so therefore they aren't always accepted by seahorses.

Other live foods to try are guppies, livebearer fry (like mollies), mosquito larvae, glass worms, and bloodworms. But these are all foods I'd only try as a last resort. They're really hit or miss as to whether or not the seahorses will take them.

If you can't find any live food locally, then it can be ordered online. Some places are www.aquaculturestore.com, www.livebrineshrimp.com, and www.oceanrider.com for red shrimp. But I would try to find live food locally asap. Otherwise have it shipped overnight first thing in the morning tomorrow.

Also, don't let the look of their stomach fool you. Even if one looks fat, it may not be eating. Certain internal infections cause the insides to swell up. These infections usually occur in weakened, starved seahorses and can be a false positive that they're eating. Unless you witness them eating (or pooping), don't take this for granted.

You are right about the longevity of the seahorses. Its widely debated how long they live, but generall its considered to be 3 - 7 years for large species. It probably varies from species to species. I'm sure the ones at your local fish store are dying because they aren't getting enough food and slowly starve. I really hate when stores say things like this. Often times its not out of ignorance, but to make continued sales. If they tell their customers that they don't live long, then people won't feel bad replacing them. However, if they admit they should have live longer, many people will refuse to buy them again.

As for color, while it can be a sign of mood, color is more often used for camouflage. They may have gotten dark just because the tank or their favorite hitching post is dark. The same with lightening up. I had two black seahorse for six months, then added a red fake coral and overnight they turned bright yellow.

Also, please remove the puffer. He may be extremely gentle, but all it takes is one experimental nip to open a wound that can get infected. I used to keep puffers with urchins safely, probably for 8 months. Then one day one puffer decided to nibble on an urchin, and within two weeks they were all killed. The same thing could happen with your puffer. As nice as it may seem, it is an agressive predator with sharp teeth that could do some serious damage if it chose. Because it hasn't yet doesn't mean it won't. Also keep in mind seahorses are very intelligent and recognize predators, becoming stressed when they're around. It sounds like these guys are stressed enough as is, having something they perceive as a threat looming around will only compound the stress.

I understand you're trying to save these seahorses, but please keep in mind they have very specialized requirements, and if you don't meet them, they will perish. Get them live food asap, get the puffer out, and hopefully they will do well. I would suggest also checking out http://www.seahorse.org for advice. And finally, if you can't provide for them the proper food or environment, please try to find someone who can. Taking care of wild caught seahorses is a huge undertaking and usually results in failure unless you're prepared for their intense (and expensive) care.

[Spring1]

Skybase, you might also want to cut back on the current, especially at feeding time, so your horses wont have to work so hard to catch the food. I turn my skimmer and filter off when I feed.

Spring

[luvabunny]

Hi Skybase,
While I applaud your decision to adopt and care for these seahorses, I must also comment on your reasoning. Taking them, feeding them and caring for them is admirable, but I have never, ever heard of the "black unhappy, yellow healthy" idea.
Like fishgrrl said, color is based on the specific seahorse. Some are naturally yellow, some black, some red, etc. They can change overnight. I have a purple male reidi that has been purple for the past year. He is healthy, having babies, and, I believe, happy. Two weeks ago, I added another pair to the tank-a bright orange male and flourescent yellow female. Guess what? My purple male has turned a rust orange.
What I am getting at is this...color doesn't necessarily mean your horse is either healthy or happy. Some are perfectly happy with their black coloration. I would focus more on making sure they are eating, have good eye movement and dancing morning and evening than worrying about what color they are.
Good luck!

[Skybase]

Well, the third seahorse is eating now. .I'd run out of frozen mysis for a short time. . .but now that it's back in there. . they're making quite the pigs of themselves. .and don't seem stressed to me at all. I do appreciate any and all feedback, as I don't want to see these get hurt. the original one is QUITE the pig. . the other ones are becoming so. .which is nice. . .they're "pooping" quite well also. The 4th one, now, does eat. Doesn't go crazy, going all over the tank for it, but. . does go after it. the other 3 are almost completely yellow now as well. My tank is quite light as well (hitching posts, etc) so they'd be crazy to "camoflauge" themselves as a darker color.

Anyhow, they are eating the frozen Mysis now, and doing it quite well. I do turn off a filter that I've recently added to the tank when I feed them, mainly to keep the mysis from being sucked up, where they won't be very attractive to the seahorses.

But they're quite anxious when they eat, and seem quite happy. Nothing in there scares them, and they hang out w/ anything in there. They'll even "happily?" cling to any tools that I may have in the tank as well. They're becoming quite personable as well. .I wish that I DID have somewhere to move my puffer to (I know they're brackish/fresh as well) but I really don't have anywhere right now, so all I can really do is watch for something. . .but. . .as of yet, he's NEVER touched ANYTHING in the tank. . .

But I WILL keep a close eye out for anything suspicious, etc.

So as for the stress, or not eating. .I guess that has turned quite around. It's looking very good now, and I'll be surprised if ANY of the seahorses die soon of malnutrition.

I was surprised how quickly they took after the Mysis Shrimp (frozen, enriched). They don't really like the Brine frozen anyhow. .which is fine, as it's not nearly as healthy for them.

and they have GREAT eye movement, and quite a bit of "dancing" as you say. they're so fun to watch interact w/ eachother.

As I've mentioned, they LOVE to ride my hydrometer around the tank. . ..still do that all the time. . .

**EDIT**

Oh, and the supplement I'm using is Zoe. . .HEhe. . .but I"m sure you'd all caught on to that. . .

[LisaD]

I'm glad it is going well. What brand of frozen mysis are you using? Can you post pictures? If you want to help educate the person at your LFS, seahrorse.org has a care sheet, "Important Facts...", first entry in the Library I think, that can be printed out. If you haven't seen it already, you may find it useful. Your friend at the LFS DEFINITELY needs to read it! I hope the seahorses continue to do well for you.

LisaD

[Skybase]

Thank you. They seem quite happy. The brand is the same brand they feed them at that LFS. In fact, that's where I buy both. It's Hikari Frozen. At our LFS, it's actually cheaper pre-"tableted" than the flat-packs are, of this particular shrimp. Seems to be a pretty good brand. Nice, whole mysis, etc.

[LisaD]

I like Hikari. I believe they now supplement it with Omega-3 fatty acids too. If it seems a little small, or you want to alternate it with a different type, PE Mysis is very popular and has a naturally high fatty acid content. I buy mine from www.premiumaquatics.com, 5 packs at a time, $10 each. To have them shipped on dry ice from IN to NC is just $17. This lasts me about 5 months, feeding 15-18 medium to large seahorses.

LisaD

[Skybase]

That's something I may look into. . I don't usually order online, as the shipping is SOOO $$$$.

But that doesn't sound TOO bad. . .how many ounces per pack? I guess I could check. .I'm lazy. . .haha

[dapet]

Very interesting reading on the wc seahorses. Checked out two yellow and one black horse at the LPS Sunday. I was asuread that the horses would not eat at all. And they will die was also told they were WC. Our LFS would see them die befor they would let them go without pay. I tried to get a dying pregant male from the store so that maybe I could keep him alive until he delivered, nothing doing there. He had snout rot so bad he couldn't eat. I have bought several pair from this store and lost them real fast. So it is nice to know that you have kept these alive and doing so well.

[Skybase]

. .sorry to hear that. .I was sure that's how he'd be here as well, but . . .surprisingly, he was very good about it. Things still looking good. . .wish that more LFS would think about their "pets" more than their "merchandise". .

Makes me sick to hear they'd rather watch them die, than get them taken care of. .

[LisaD]

Skybase,

"But that doesn't sound TOO bad. . .how many ounces per pack?"

The PE Mysis is 8 ounces per flat pack. There are a LOT of shrimp in there. I forgot to mention I also use some of what I buy for my predator/aggressive tank (puffer, tuskfish, zebra moray, imperator angel, mimic tang, clowns...)

The dry ice shipping makes it really worth it, especially if you don't mind buying several months worth at a time. I have been very happy with Premium Aquatics, they provide good service and reasonably priced supplies and livestock.

BTW, dapet's comments illustrate why it is so important to:

1) Research the specific requirements of seahorses. For good information, go to www.seahorse.org. (BTW I am not unbiased, I am a moderator on the site )

2) Buy CB if at all possible. Next best is to get seahorses direct from a collector. There are two species native to the US that you can get shipped from Florida. These are erectus (the BEST beginner seahorse!) and dwarf seahorses (very hardy if you meet their needs, including hatching brine shrimp for them daily).
Even WC erectus can be taught to eat frozen food fairly easily, unlike many other species. One good source of WC erectus (lined seahorse) and zosterae (dwarf seahorses) is www.floridacollector.com. Freshly collected horses are generally not nearly as stressed, diseased and starved as those that end up in the LFS.

3) Support the more ethical and educated (or willing to learn) pet stores. Seahorse.org has a care sheet, first item in the Library, that we encourage people to print and distribute to your LFS in an attempt to help educate them and their customers...

HTH,
LisaD

[Skybase]

Definitely with you on this one. I wasn't SURE about getting a seahorse till I saw the ones in her.e .and know that he doesn't take care of them. I figured I'd try it, rather than see them die for sure. Then when mine did so well, I decided to adopt the rest, if he'd let me. He doesn't usually sell them, has them for "Display" only, as he says they don't live long. *pbblltt*

But anyhow, If I get anymore in the future, I'll be SURE to get them somewhere else, and CB rather than WC.

I will check out that forum as well. . .
Thanks again for all of the information!