DIY Balanced Magnesium Supplement

[jacko]

Originally posted by Greg Hiller
I may be coordinating a pallet delivered to our local reef club!

Looks Good, Greg, I'll take some.

But you should also do an order of magnitude calculation....the mass of magnesium in one pallet will be encorporatde into what mass of coral skeleton...and can our local club actually grow that much coral within the next one or five years? My point is, it may be rather pure and cheap, but is one pallet overkill for the new england area based on usage?

~ jack

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That analysis does look pretty good!

[HSLee]

I'm using nagari as my Mg additive. With shipping it costs a little over a $1 per pound. It's reportedly is extracted from evaporated SW. Yes, I don't think vendor would have trace analysis on the product nor any guarantee on consistency, but since the Mg level range we're trying to hit is wide, I feel safe using it.

http://www.great-eastern-sun.com/sho...lt&nigari.html

[Greg Hiller]

Jack.

I agree that a pallet is overkill, but that is the minimum purchase direct from the company. FWIW, when I looked into making my own salt mix many years ago, the only component I found that I could not acquire economically was MgCl2. While I'm not sure I want to bother with making my own salt mix, I imagine I could go through the MgCl2 much faster if I was using it for that purpose. The problem of course with making your own salt mix is that it would be difficult to mill, so you'd have to make up large volumes of water at a time.

[thackray]

HSLee,

With nagari being a food processing product, I would think that an analysis would be available. Did you ask? Perhaps it is available further up the distribution chain.

Phil Thackray

[jfinch]

I like the way Greg thinks , if I were in the Boston area I'd sure be in for a bag or two. Where is Potash Import & Chemical Corp? Do they distribute out west?

[Hobster]

Originally posted by HSLee
I'm using nagari as my Mg additive. With shipping it costs a little over a $1 per pound. It's reportedly is extracted from evaporated SW. Yes, I don't think vendor would have trace analysis on the product nor any guarantee on consistency, but since the Mg level range we're trying to hit is wide, I feel safe using it.

http://www.great-eastern-sun.com/sho...lt&nigari.html

HSLEE,

Did you get the 50lb bag? How long have you been using it? Even if I get the 1lb package it is less $ than the Kent or Seachem.

[HSLee]

Yep. Bought a 50lb bag and split it with a buddy. Using for 3 months now after I ran out of the SeaChem supplement. Was able to push Mg from about 1200ppm, to hold at just under 1500ppm. So far, have not detected any issue with using this nigari. I was particularly concerned with any possible increase in algae growth. All water test parms are still same as before.
The vendor was out of the 'refined' nigari when I ordered so I opted to try their 'coarse' grade.

Howard

[Hobster]

Have you been able to calculate how much is needed to raise a given volume of water by x amount? How much did you use to raise from 1200 to 1500 ppm? How large a tank?
Thanks

[thackray]

I’m curious for Randy’s take on Nagari. It appears to be MgCl2 which I think is what he is looking for. Mix this with Epsom salt to balance Cl- and SO4—ions. No HCl would be needed. Is this right?

Phil

[HSLee]

I've sent the nagari vendor a request for purity analysis, both their 'refined' and 'coarse' grades. I don't expect reliable data to come back, given that the production is done in rural Asia.

I haven't performed any calcs for the Mg conc of the nagari. I can only attest that it didn't take much of the stuff to move the Mg levels by 300ppm. Roughly, very comparable to the Seachem Reef Advantage Mg dry additive that I had been using.

Aren't the Sea Chem and Kent Tech-M additives, MgCl2 ? If yes, and given the fact that a lot of folks are dosing Ca via CaCl2, is there any real danger with Cl addition?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't think there is any danger to using MgCl2 alone. I also expect that many of the commercial magnesium additives are more balanced with respect to anions such as chloride, sulfate, etc., so may be a tad better.

We've discussed nigari in the past, but without a good analysis, I can't say if it is OK.

[thackray]

Randy,

If a good source of MgCl2 is available (like Greg Hiller found) in what ratio would you combine it with Epsom salts to achieve the Cl- SO4- - balance you spoke of in your original post in this thread.

Phil

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Craig covers that in this article:

A Homemade Magnesium Supplement
http://web.archive.org/web/200306242...io/default.asp

from it:

"Many of you won’t have good balances at home, but making approximately a 10:1 mixture of these two salts should be fairly simple. Because their densities are fairly close to each other (1.67 grams per cubic centimeter for Epsom salts and 1.56 grams per cubic centimeter for magnesium chloride hexahydrate) one should be able to get fairly close by simply using 10 volumes of magnesium chloride hexahydrate and one volume of Epsom salts. Use of this supplement will not appreciably disrupt the ionic ratios of the major two anions in seawater."

[Greg Hiller]

Well, the minimum order is 2400 lbs....YEEOW!

But, after the shipping the cost turns out to be only about 30% more than for icemelt grade. About $20 for a 50# bag. Hmmmm....

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That's one big coral skeleton. At 4% magnesium, your talking 30 tons of frags. Planning an expansion, Greg?

[Muttling]

Originally posted by Greg Hiller
Well, the minimum order is 2400 lbs....YEEOW!

But, after the shipping the cost turns out to be only about 30% more than for icemelt grade. About $20 for a 50# bag. Hmmmm....

I can hear it now...."but dear, it was a good deal and ON SALE"

beep, beep, beep.


"Huh, oh that the Yellow Freight truck pulling in the driveway"

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Greg's basement is already loaded with a ton of tanks and stuff. I think he'd need a shed to store the magnesium.

[Greg Hiller]

>Greg's basement is already loaded with a ton of tanks and stuff. I think he'd need a shed to store the magnesium.<

Or 47 similarly minded BRS members. Shall I put you down for a bag Randy?

Remember, you can always use it to melt ice.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Remember, you can always use it to melt ice.

That's what I was going to do with 49.9 pounds of Dowflake

Still, I might be willing to get one.

[Muttling]

Randy, the recipe you linked is for a granular form. Can you run the give us instructions for a saturated liquid using RO/DI (assuming 100% purity), technical grade HCl, epson salts, and the magnesium chloride he's mentioned above?

Would it be possible to substitute white vinegar for the HCl? If so, what approx. amounts should be used?

Remember, this is a kitchen sink recipe so it's all going to be give or take a little bit in my house. It's unlikely to come up truely saturated, but I'm sure we can get close enough for government work which comes quite natural to us government contractors.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You wouldn't need any HCl if you had magnesium chloride and epsom salts, which are both solids. The HCl was to convert magnesium hydroxide to magnesium chloride.

[dpfenny]

Just to preface this post, I am in no way a chemist.


I have been following this thread and learning more and more about magnesium, but still know very little. I did notice that my Seachem Reef Advantage Magnesium says the ingredients are Magnesium Sulfate and Sodium Chloride. Isn't that just epsom salt and table salt?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sodium chloride is table salt.

Where do you see an ingredient list, and what exactly does it say? I've not seen an exact listing.

From thier web site:

http://www.seachem.com/products/prod...Magnesium.html

"Reef Advantage Magnesiumâ„¢ is a concentrated (80,000 ppm) optimized blend of magnesium, chloride, and sulfate salts designed to restore depleted levels of magnesium with minimal impact to the ionic ratios found in natural sea water. Reef Advantage Magnesiumâ„¢ contains no ammonia! This is a common contaminant in every liquid magnesium supplement on the market.
Severely depleted levels of magnesium (below 800 mg/L) can cause depressed pH levels and an inability to maintain proper calcium levels. Magnesium depletion is commonly associated with the use of kalkwasser."

[dpfenny]

It is listed on the container at the bottom.

Guaranteed analysis (Amounts per 1g)
Magnesium(Mg)(min)........................................80mg
Ingredients: magnesium sulfate, sodium chloride