Starboard Reef is up and running

[Aquabucket]

I love the look and idea.

Just one question how did this method come about? How long have reefers been using starboard?

I think it is something I am going to try someday down the road.

Best of luck to you and keep the pictures coming!

[Bomber]

You know something? I do too! LOL It actually worked out better than I thought it would.

I don't know about the starboard, but bare bottom is the way it was done for about a hundred years before people tried to adapt DSB's to it. Guess I'm the only one that tried StarBoard (shrug). I know over the years I've dropped enough rocks in tanks that I learned my lesson. Besides having a 450gal tsunami in the living room is not my idea of a good time.

[Aquabucket]

I see that you are a Marine Biologist, will you be keeping Florida natives as far fish are concerned? If not what fish will you be keeping?

[Crawdad1]

Hey bomber. Is it possible to see some picture before things went down hill. The one in this thread is a little outdated. I belive that it's original to the TOTM column. I just wanted to see how your tank matured before the decline.

Craw

[Addicted Reefer]

Bomber thanks for info. I should be putting my next tank together soon. Since you have choosen to go bare bottom as apposed to even a shallow sand bed do you think all sand beds will eventually lead to the DSB related problems? Or is there another reason?

TIA

Originally posted by Bomber
AR

I've actually added more fish to the tank now, I like that a lot better. I guess I'm more of a fish person anyway. I'm feeding them at least twice a day and sometimes three, about a 3/4" cube of blender mush.

I take the easy way and use calcium chloride and Arm and Hammer and do large water changes. Nitrate, phosphate, etc levels are staying way down and that's normal when you do wet skimming and heavy circulation.

Everything is working right for me again.

[photobarry]

I believe his reason is flow. Too much to have any sand.

[Addicted Reefer]

now that you said that i think he mentioned that before. thanks

Originally posted by photobarry
I believe his reason is flow. Too much to have any sand.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Bomber:



FWIW, I think a thin plastic board to protect the bottom is a great addition to a big tank, even if you use sand. UHMWPE is a great choice for toughness. Thanks for the idea!

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Aquabucket
I see that you are a Marine Biologist, will you be keeping Florida natives as far fish are concerned? If not what fish will you be keeping?

Just natives AB. Taking chances is not a option.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Crawdad1
Hey bomber. Is it possible to see some picture before things went down hill. The one in this thread is a little outdated. I belive that it's original to the TOTM column. I just wanted to see how your tank matured before the decline.

Craw

Craw, I don't have any more recent pictures. Didn't think of it really.
Then when I should have, taking pictures of hair algae didn't seem very appealing either.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Addicted Reefer
Bomber thanks for info. I should be putting my next tank together soon. Since you have choosen to go bare bottom as apposed to even a shallow sand bed do you think all sand beds will eventually lead to the DSB related problems? Or is there another reason?

TIA

Somewhere way back in this thread. LOL Anywho, for corals that like these nutrient levels and conditions, I think DSB's will work fine.

I don't think they are the way to go for people that have hard corals at all.

I see Barry mentioned circulation. What's the biggest enemy of hard corals in closed systems? phosphorus compounds
Why would you want to use a filter that stores and releases phosphate?

Then there's the whole issue of getting the recharge kits, getting the right recharges and keeping those critters in the right amounts. Trying to get some worms to do it for you and the whole system is depending on too many variables that you have no control over.

Detritus is not a pet.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
Bomber:



FWIW, I think a thin plastic board to protect the bottom is a great addition to a big tank, even if you use sand. UHMWPE is a great choice for toughness. Thanks for the idea!

and if you're really able to talk the powers that be into that new tank, I'm sure avoiding a 500gal tsunami in the living room will be to your benefit also.

[Addicted Reefer]

"Detritus is not a pet" aw come on can't i keep it?

bomber thanks again. you make a very good point. I do not think a DSB is worth the pain or upkeep. If you can't keep it going with all the resources you have availible I would never stand a chance. I am just happy you guys started making waves and stating your experiences. It is still kind of sad how alot of people still recommend the DSB with out at least warning of the possible problems. I would much rather spend my money on live stock i can enjoy than DSB band aids. Now i have 500lbs of southdown to figure out what to do with.

Maybe i will use it for my future softy frag tank.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

and if you're really able to talk the powers that be into that new tank, I'm sure avoiding a 500gal tsunami in the living room will be to your benefit also.

Almost anything can be purchased if that is the justification given to her.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Addicted Reefer
" I am just happy you guys started making waves and stating your experiences. It is still kind of sad how alot of people still recommend the DSB with out at least warning of the possible problems.

I don't know so much about that. Seems that there's some people that don't read what the DSB "gurus" have either directly stated or mostly just implied. Some of these "gurus" seem to have dug their heels in and refuse to address the problems or blame it on something else. But some of the old DSB "gurus" have now done a 180 and are recommending very shallow sand beds, if any sand at all.
I think the biggest problem is that these hobby systems are so diverse, people and some of the DSB "gurus" tend to not fully understand what's going on chemically or biologically, and DSB's will cover a multitude of sins for a while. Coupled with the fact that a good bit of the 'scientific' literature that's chosen to support these positions is circumspect to begin with or just flat out does not apply to closed systems.

Take for instance the references to DSB's feeding corals. First you have to define what you're referring to as corals. Some a DSB might feed a little and some not at all. The way a coral receives nutrients in the wild is based on availability, you can't compare that to a closed system either. Where something is not used on the reef because it's just not that available, might be the reverse in a closed system.
Then the references to it being a "natural" filtration. The only comparison is that bacteria plays the major role in nature and closed system filtration. If you truly want to duplicate a natural hard coral reef, then change lots of water and don't let that detritus sit there.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
and if you're really able to talk the powers that be into that new tank, I'm sure avoiding a 500gal tsunami in the living room will be to your benefit also.

Almost anything can be purchased if that is the justification given to her.

Have you seen that new stainless steel wet vac at Home Depot?

Looks fast sitting still!

[Crawdad1]

Originally posted by Bomber
Craw, I don't have any more recent pictures. Didn't think of it really.
Then when I should have, taking pictures of hair algae didn't seem very appealing either.

I ment prior to the hair algae. I have seen on the boards here where people compare from when their tanks are first set up and then 6 months to a year later. It really nice to see a tank grow. Do you have any other pictures then the originals from when the tank was set up?

[Addicted Reefer]

Your right there has been a change in the board lately more and more people kind of hinting that there are problems. Some people like your self have been saying it for awhile now. As I am sure you know there are others that think there will be some magic fix found with in the next couple years. I hope someone does figure out a cure for the simple advancement of the hobby and so nothing else dies needlessly. Either way i have no right to to pass judgement on anyone and I hope i did not come off that way. I have made more than my share of mistakes in giving advice and husbandry. I am just glad that the information is there if someone wants to find it.

Originally posted by Bomber
I don't know so much about that. Seems that there's some people that don't read what the DSB "gurus" have either directly stated or mostly just implied. Some of these "gurus" seem to have dug their heels in and refuse to address the problems or blame it on something else. But some of the old DSB "gurus" have now done a 180 and are recommending very shallow sand beds, if any sand at all.
I think the biggest problem is that these hobby systems are so diverse, people and some of the DSB "gurus" tend to not fully understand what's going on chemically or biologically, and DSB's will cover a multitude of sins for a while. Coupled with the fact that a good bit of the 'scientific' literature that's chosen to support these positions is circumspect to begin with or just flat out does not apply to closed systems.

If you truly want to duplicate a natural hard coral reef, then change lots of water and don't let that detritus sit there.

[nanorfj]

Here is a link for ordering custom sizes of 1/2 inch thick cutting boards, similar to the earlier link for US Plastics, except this supplier offers the color black and will cut the board to your specs. I'm planning on setting up a 75 gallon using this stuff, inside dimensions (accounting for the silicone on the glass seams) are 47.25 x 17.25. Two pieces, each 47.25 x 8.62 will allow the board seam to be lengthwise in the tank for easy placement under the tank brace.

link

[erc111]

New tank; 120g starboard covering the bottom, 100# DR & 150 # LR (added Friday), hot skimmer,, apx 1000g circulation on wavemaker.

ammonia <.5, nitrate 0, nitrite 0, with salifert kits.

The ph is low, 8.0 after adding some buffer.

I didn't expect the ph to go down when adding keys aquaculture rock. I got a dosing pump today, I'll set it up tomorrow.

We'll see...

Clay

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Crawdad1
I ment prior to the hair algae. I have seen on the boards here where people compare from when their tanks are first set up and then 6 months to a year later. It really nice to see a tank grow. Do you have any other pictures then the originals from when the tank was set up?

I know, and I didn't. I think Greg, Henry, Doug, Jay, Jeff, Bob, Andy, and a whole list of others have pictures of it through the years. I'm not into taking pictures of tanks and all the pictures other people have taken. I showed pictures of when it was first set up years ago showing the rocks. Then there are pictures years after that when it was TOTM.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by Addicted Reefer
I am just glad that the information is there if someone wants to find it.

Me too.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by nanorfj
Here is a link for ordering custom sizes of 1/2 inch thick cutting boards, similar to the earlier link for US Plastics, except this supplier offers the color black and will cut the board to your specs. I'm planning on setting up a 75 gallon using this stuff, inside dimensions (accounting for the silicone on the glass seams) are 47.25 x 17.25. Two pieces, each 47.25 x 8.62 will allow the board seam to be lengthwise in the tank for easy placement under the tank brace.

link

Be sure it's not treated with any anti-bacterial/fungal stuff. That's why I'm sticking to Starboard.

[Bomber]

Originally posted by erc111
New tank; 120g starboard covering the bottom, 100# DR & 150 # LR (added Friday), hot skimmer,, apx 1000g circulation on wavemaker.

ammonia <.5, nitrate 0, nitrite 0, with salifert kits.

The ph is low, 8.0 after adding some buffer.

I didn't expect the ph to go down when adding keys aquaculture rock. I got a dosing pump today, I'll set it up tomorrow.

We'll see...

Clay

Clay, remember you're running what they call a Berlin system this way and a big honker of a skimmer is to your advantage.

[Bomber]

This is all that's been done so far, remember it's only been a month. I tried to design the rocks around some specific corals that were outgrowing the systems they were in, and tried to make room for them.