Elegance Coral theory - Page 13

Charles Ward · #**301** 09/14/2007, 02:12 PM

I think its mostly luck. I got mine at a LFS that isint even that great of a store and it quite large. Premium Aquatics has an elagance for sale that might be on the larger side.

rcypert · #**302** 09/16/2007, 11:07 AM

Pictures of my elegance at 3 months in captivity. What do you like of the light level? It is in a 40 breeder with a 250 watt 10k halide and 2x95 watt VHO actinics. It is 95% hidden from direct halide light but gets some reflected off the glass right next to it.

elegance coral · #**303** 09/17/2007, 06:51 AM

Wow! That is one awesome tank!

Your Elegance looks beautiful and perfectly healthy to me. How dark was the brown color when you got it? One thing that seems a little strange to me is that when a healthy Elegance adapts to bright light it begins to discharge its algae and can become semi transparent like yours. In a coral that bleaches they don't become transparent. They turn white. I wonder if this is due to the damaged tissue in bleached corals? I purchased an Elegance that was even more transparent than yours, but after being in my tank for several months (low PAR) it has turned a much darker brown and is no longer transparent.
In my opinion, while your coral is shaded, it is still receiving a good amount of light. It does not require a large population of algae to provide the coral with the nutrition it needs under these lights. I believe this is why it has the transparent appearance. If it were my coral I would leave it right where it is and feed it once a week. I would definitely NOT move it out of the shade. It is showing signs of being close to its maximum level of light right where it is. Moving it out in the open would most likely be deadly.

victor escobar · #**304** 09/17/2007, 07:24 AM

I've got an elegance last week I'm very happy with it. After this week the aussi elegance has become deep green and has started to eat. The tentacles are bigger and bigger, specially after the last water change. I think we should not overlook the importance of water quality and feeding for elegances.

This post is to ask if anybody has seen crabs on the elegance corals and if thay are negative to their health. Yesterday I saw one brown with the size of a pea when I was feeding it (I'm not sure but I think it was going out from one of the mouths. Is it possible? maybe it was trying to steal the food).

rcypert · #**305** 09/17/2007, 07:34 AM

The coral was a little darker when I received it. I can tell that the most transparent part of the coral is the part that is getting the least light the top back of the coral. You can clearly see the rock right through the coral. What I meant by moving the coral out was moving it one centimeter at a time. A very slow progression out of the cave with at least a good 2 weeks between moves. How do you feel about that? I'm perfectly fine leaving it where it is but I would like to acclimate it to brighter lights in the case that one day I don't have such a nice cave for it. But most importantly I want the coral to like where it is. The transparency worried me a bit and I wanted to ask if it was getting enough light.

rcypert · #**306** 09/17/2007, 07:37 AM

Victor can you get a picture of the crab? Some crabs are just using the coral as protection while others might be stealing its food or even living in its tissue. I dont know much about these crabs but I do know that a picture can help us ID the thing.

elegance coral · #**307** 09/17/2007, 05:50 PM

I agree with rcypert. We really need a pic. There is a parasitic Gal crab that infests LPS corals. It has even been suggested that they are the cause of the whole Elegance coral problem. (they're not) To check for Gal Crabs wave your hand over your Elegance so that the current will cause it to close up. You may need to pick the coral up and turn it upside down while holding it under water. Look around the edge of the coral where the tissue meets the skeleton. This line should be smooth and uniform all the way around. If there is an abnormality where the tissue seems to be wrapped around something small (maybe 1/4") , on the top edge of the skeleton, or is pulled away from the skeleton in one small section, you may have a Gal crab. Porcelain crabs can live on Elegance corals and cause no harm, that I know of. There are other crabs that can damage an Elegance by trying to steal food from it. If you can't get a pic, I would just remove the crab the first chance you get.

elegance coral · #**308** 09/17/2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rcypert
The coral was a little darker when I received it. I can tell that the most transparent part of the coral is the part that is getting the least light the top back of the coral. You can clearly see the rock right through the coral. What I meant by moving the coral out was moving it one centimeter at a time. A very slow progression out of the cave with at least a good 2 weeks between moves. How do you feel about that? I'm perfectly fine leaving it where it is but I would like to acclimate it to brighter lights in the case that one day I don't have such a nice cave for it. But most importantly I want the coral to like where it is. The transparency worried me a bit and I wanted to ask if it was getting enough light.

I may be way off base here, but I'm going to try and explain what I think is happening here. You are there in person and can see things better than I with just a pic, a very good pic though

.

The back portion of the coral is shaded more than the front of the coral. This leads us to believe that the algae in the front portion of the coral is able to receive much more energy than the algae in the back. Sounds logical, right? I don't think this is what's happening. The back portion of the coral is up against the rocks. The folds in the corals polyp are fallowing the contour of the rocks. This leaves the polyp very thin over the surface of the rocks. Light penetrates this thin portion of the polyp and is still quite strong when it reaches the rocks on the other side. There is a white spot on the rocks just behind the polyp. I believe that the light is being reflected back into the polyp. Any algae in the coral near this area would be receiving light from almost 360 degrees. Its energy would be coming from both sides. Even in the first pic you posted where it really shows how dark this cave is when compared to the rest of the tank, this white spot is glowing. In order for that white spot to show up in that pic from that distance and through the corals polyp it must be reflecting a great deal of light. The front portion of the coral that is more exposed to the aquarium lights is lying on the sand bed. The sand is white and should be able to reflect a great deal of light itself. However the sand is flat. The folds in the polyp bunch up like pleats in a skirt when they are on a flat surface. This causes the distance from the sand to the top of the polyp folds to be quite far and many tentacles to be stacked on top of each other. The light must penetrate all this tissue before it can reach the sand bed bellow. By the time the light reaches the sand bed below there is not much to be reflected back into the coral. While the light may start out stronger for the front portion of the coral, the algae inside is only receiving light from one direction and the algae in the lower portion of the polyp is being shaded by the polyp above. If you look at the close up pick on the far right hand side where it is receiving the most light, you will notice the top tentacles are green. This is the photosynthetic pigments that are more abundant in brighter lights. The tentacles just below these are brown. They are partially shaded by the tentacles above so they don't have as many photosynthetic pigments, but have a larger population of algae. There are a few tentacles very close to the sand bed that are a lighter color than the tentacles in the center. I believe this is due to the light that directly contacts the sand bed and is reflected back up to these tentacles.

Corals adapt to light in many different ways. It's not just the power or PAR of the light that counts, but the spectrum as well. I am still trying to figure out why sometimes an Elegance will become transparent in bright lights and sometimes they turn bright green. It must have something to do with the spectrum. Your coral is doing everything. It has clear tentacles in one spot, green in others, and brown in others. If you want to experiment with moving it out, I would do it. I would never tell someone not to experiment with their corals. Just take it very very slow, and keep a very close eye out for stress. You don't want your coral to bleach. I don't believe your coral will show the swollen polyp thing, but it may bleach if you go to fast. Your coral will change colors if you do this.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes if you try it.

victor escobar · #**309** 09/21/2007, 03:14 AM

finally I could catch the gal crab with my fingers, it was not easy because I did not want to damage the coral. I've got some cell pfohe pictures and a short video. the problem I have now is how to show it to you because I haven't got the softward to put the pictures in the computer so the only way I can see to hang the picture(s) is to send it to you by the cell phone if anybody would like to give in my e-mail his(her) telephone number. I know there are always doubts with the privacy issue. If this cannot be done I will try other ways.

victor escobar · #**310** 09/21/2007, 05:49 AM

I have posted a new thread on "other invertebrates" on the issue ob the gal crab because I think it could be important but parallelle to the dicussion in this thread.

The problem is that one Spanish aquarist from barcelona has had a problem with his cata that melted from day to the other and has found a gal crab female inside the rotten tissue of the cata. He thinks the crab has eaten the cata from inside.

victor escobar · #**311** 09/21/2007, 05:52 AM

Look at this please. even if I cannot see it myself it seems there are fotos

http://www.todomarino.com/forum/show...threadid=19451

elegance coral · #**312** 09/21/2007, 06:39 AM

I can't read what is being said in that thread, but the pictures definitely show a Gal crab with eggs. These are nasty little parasites, but I do not believe this crab is what killed the Elegance.

zeppelin · #**313** 09/23/2007, 01:20 PM

A few aussie elegance frags in my 300 display. The large one is about 10" across.

These have been fragged for a couple months now and seem to be doing well for me. They are under 14K 250 watt MH, about 30" or so from the light.

elegance coral · #**314** 09/24/2007, 06:53 AM

Hay Zeppelin, what are your plans for those Elegance corals? They do look nice and healthy.

elegance coral · #**315** 09/24/2007, 06:57 AM

Is there anyone fallowing this thread that knows anything about web sites? If so can you PM me? I am about to pull my hair out! .

Thanks

elegance coral · #**316** 09/25/2007, 07:16 PM

I finally got my LFS to listen to me about where they were putting their Elegance corals. I walked in and everyone was happy and asked if I had seen the Elegance over in the tank I told them to put the Elegance in. I walked over and they looked great. The owner said that he tried putting them in the coral tank where he always puts them, but when they quickly went down hill he did what I asked. I was starting to get a little discouraged. If I couldn't convince my LFS of what I've been saying how would I be able to convince people on the internet? Well one small hurtle has been crossed. I think my LFS is a believer now. Two more Elegance corals saved!

John Kelly · #**317** 09/25/2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by elegance coral
If I couldn't convince my LFS of what I've been saying how would I be able to convince people on the internet?

Give 'em money!

elegance coral · #**318** 09/26/2007, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Kelly
Give 'em money!

If I had money I would have a good camera to take pictures with and many more corals to take pictures of. I could pay someone to set up the site and I could post all the evidence I would need. Right now I have an old VHSC video recorder. I video tape the corals then put the tape in a VCR and download it to the computer. Then I grab frames from the video and post the pictures on line. This is a long process and the quality stinks. When/if the housing market comes back in my area, I will be able to spend the money needed. I'm still not going to "give'em money" though

.

kenko · #**319** 09/26/2007, 04:00 PM

I purchased my elegance, it was under 250w MH not sure of kelven) from a LFS. It had been there for a while (per the store) and looked great. I placed in about 15in from the lights and 9in under water. The lights are 55wPCs, 2 each 10,000, 50/50, and actinics. I had turned off the 50/50s with a little relief so I turned off the 10ks with greater relief. this was done for 6 days and 1 day with 1 hour of 10ks. It is still showing similar stress but looks much better. I moved it down 5in so it is just off the bottom. I also restarted the 50/50s in addition to the 10ks for an hour a day. we shall see....

Karl

Mental1 · #**320** 09/26/2007, 06:05 PM

Today I watched as my beautiful elegance coral maneuvered food into it's mouth. It's the first time I have seen it do it so easily! And I am up to 5 hours of full lights a day without a reaction so I think it is getting stronger.

elegance coral · #**321** 09/28/2007, 11:43 AM

That's great to hear, Sherri. As time passes and it continues to eat it will get stronger and stronger. Before long it will be grabbing any food that gets close. It will start stinging you too, so use caution when cleaning the tank. Great job!

Charles Ward · #**322** 09/28/2007, 06:14 PM

Hey Elagance Coral,
I came home yesterday and found that my elagance coral has expanded even farther then I thought it could. This thing is BIG!!! It covers about 8"to 10" across and atleast a 15" in total length. My concern is that it is very close to my GBTA which is also about 8" in diameter. Do you belive them touching will cause a disaster? I know the anemone has nematocyst that will sting pretty much anything but is the elagance able to stands its ground? I will try and post a pic of this standoff so you can see exactly what I am dealing with. my biggest problem is space to accomidate the two of them. They are in an 120g tank but they both look awesome where they currently at. I could frag the elagance as it is made of one very large head (7 to 8 mouths)and a second thats slightly smaller (4 to 5 mouths) inorder to make some room between it and the nem. What do you believe is my best course of action?Thanks for your input.

This was the elagance a month ago will post new pic this weekend.

elegance coral · #**323** 09/28/2007, 06:44 PM

They can expand to be huge. I have seen them expand more than 6 inches from the skeleton in all directions. You can frag the Elegance, but I wouldn't. There are lots of small Elegance corals in the hobby. Unfortunately large healthy Elegance corals are very rare. This sucks that one of these animals will need to be moved. It is much safer to move the Elegance, but it is obviously happy right where it is. If they do touch, maybe the bubble will move on its own. If not the battle probably won't be pretty. Elegance corals can have a very powerful sting. I have had them sting me many times to the point that their tentacles would come off on my arm, like carpet anemones do. I hope you can post a picture. I want to see this monster.

elegance coral · #**324** 10/15/2007, 05:58 AM

I need pic's of Elegance corals. Anyone fallowing this thread with pic's I could use? I especially need pics of sick corals.

Reno Reef · #**325** 10/19/2007, 08:56 PM

Elegance...

Thank you very much for getting this thread rolling. I was under the impression that elegance corals were going to die 99% of the time.

I was in a LFS just yesterday and they had 3 elegance corals. And they were pretty bleached. And they were under quite powerful MHs. This gives me some hope that my PCs might be able to support these great corals.