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#176
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elegance coral - your inbox is full
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O O o o O O o o o o o o O <º)))>< <º)))>< <º)))>< <º)))>< Jeff |
#177
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CRAP! I'll clean it out right now. Sorry about that.
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#178
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I have been trying to find some characteristic that we could use to differentiate between the sensitive and less sensitive corals. I have been unable to come up with anything that works in all cases. The only thing that seems to be reliable is if the coral polyp is expanded several times the size of the skeleton. Like 4 or 5 times the size, and has a pale or semitransparent appearance, it is a shallow water coral and has a very wide range of light it can adapt to without damage. Other than that there doesn't seem to be anything that can help us. There seem to be other corals that utilize the same clad of algae as the coral I just described but have a much darker appearance. I would assume that they came from a slightly deeper or more shaded area. Allot of people put quite a bit of emphasis on the color of the tips of the corals tentacles. I have fried them all. This doesn't seem to have any bearing on the corals survivability. Most other corals dont have the ability to survive in the drastically different environments that Elegance corals can. I have read articles that put these corals living from just a few feet below the low tide line down to 114ft. Most other corals have a much smaller area they can survive in. I believe that there success can be contributed to the use of different clads of algae. I don't believe that the same clad of algae can survive at both ends of the Elegance corals range. This makes it hard on us when we try to find the correct environment to place our Elegance in. |
#179
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something came to mind.....what about the ones coming from very muddy nutrient rich water. Ive seen a yellow elegance that was found completely buried in mud. Would this be a possible bleacher? I think that the bleaching just goes back to where the specimen was collected the depth the environment as well as the water quality
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#180
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week 1
week 2 week 1 week 2 week 1 week 2 It is a slow process and my camera stinks, but I don't think this is bad for 1 week. It's a huge improvement over day one. Last edited by elegance coral; 07/21/2007 at 09:47 AM. |
#181
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John suggested above that perhaps we should look for different colors of fluorescent proteins in a more light-tolerant elegance and I think there is definitely merit to that. I have only seen a couple australian elegance corals in person, but the two I have seen were most definitely a different color, more of a blue-green (like a teal) than the yellowish-lime green that many of the indo's are that I have seen at the LFS out here.
Which raises another question... will an indonesian deeper-water elegance change over time to a more blue-green appearance when acclimated to higher light? Not to digress either, but I really hope the Australian government is monitoring the rate of collection of these new "aussie" corals so that we don't end up in the same boat with aussie corals in a few years.
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O O o o O O o o o o o o O <º)))>< <º)))>< <º)))>< <º)))>< Jeff |
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Here is another color morph of the aussie elegance. This is a frag I cut about 3 weeks ago. Still going strong in my display. Its a light blue with purple tips. Seems to have recovered remarkably well, and is already growing another mouth.
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They call it the 'passing lane' and the 'fast lane' for a reason. If you're not doing either, GET OUT OF IT! '04 CTS-V PEACE.....from Zeppelin 300 gallon Tenacor Acrylic Peninsula tank |
#183
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looks amazing
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#184
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There are many different shades of green found in Elegance corals. Like John Kelly pointed out, it ranges from almost yellow to the other end of the color, an almost blue color. It doesn't seem to matter if they came from Australia or the Indo Pacific. I believe that this color is genetic. I don't believe we can change a yellow Elegance to a blue Elegance. They can change the number of pigments causing a drastic change in appearance, but not the color itself.
The Aussie government is keeping a very close eye on this. They are only allowing a limited number of corals to be collected. This is one of the reasons that Aussie corals are so expensive. They will shut this down long before there is any real damage to the reef. Zeppelin, that's a very nice Elegance by the way. |
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There seems to be some very experienced and knowledgeable people tagging along with this thread. I would like to pick your brains if I could. I purposely purchased a wide range of corals to add to the tank with my Elegance corals. There are many different colors of shrooms, a red open brain, a clam, GSP, a couple of SPS frags, and others. My hopes were to add different clads of algae into the tank. If I am correct, that the whole problem with Elegance corals boils down to the clad of algae in its tissues, maybe they could pick up a different clad of algae from one of these other corals that would be better suited to aquarium life. This has not happened. About a month ago I got a shallow water Elegance coral. It has drastically changed colors in this time. It is now a much darker brown then when I got it. I have noticed two of the first corals I got in this study changing recently as well. Over about the past two weeks these two corals have started to become splotchy. Darker brown areas are starting to appear around the mouths and on the oral disk. These corals have been under the same light for over 6 months. They have been a pale color until now. Do you think it is possible that these two corals are picking up algae discharged by the shallow water coral?
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#186
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#187
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I have no idea if a coral can pick up zooxanthellae from the water column or if they are all vertically transmitted from parent to offspring in the egg/larvae somehow. However, in James Fatheree's newer Tridacnids book, I recall him stating in there that the clam farms add zooxanthellae cultures to the water and it is picked up and incorporated into the tissues of juvenile clams. Supposedly, the clams also expel excess zooxanthellae which is still live and may or may not get "picked up" by other clams or species.
So, I would think it is theoretically possible... I guess one way to check is to expose a bleached elegance to a culture of zooxanthellae and then later determine if that same strain is incorporated into its tissues...
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O O o o O O o o o o o o O <º)))>< <º)))>< <º)))>< <º)))>< Jeff |
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It has been a theory for a long time that one of the benefits to bleaching is that it frees up space for a clad of algae that is better suited to the new environment. I don't know if there has been any recent research proving or disproving this theory. It makes allot of sense to me though.
Planulae, or larvae that have been fertilized and held within the coral until they reach a level of development sufficient to be discharged, can carry algae retained from the parent. I don't believe eggs and sperm released into the water and then fertilized would have algae before fertilization. If this is true, the larvae would have to be getting the algae from the water. Just as larval clams do. If larvae are capable of retaining algae from the water, and given the great benefit involved, I would think the adult would have this ability as well. Corals are constantly regulating the population of algae within their tissues. The algae multiply and the coral discharges them. This cycle continues for the life of the coral. Nature is designed very well. It would be a large flaw in this design if a coral is in need of a particular clad of algae, this algae is drifting in the water all around it, but the coral is simply unable to utilize it and dies. I would think the coral must have the ability to retain this algae. Serioussnaps may have a point though. They believe that different clads of algae may be species specific. There are clads of algae that have only been found in one particular species of coral. Having many different species in the tank with my Elegance corals has been of no use, that I can tell. I do hope things change having this new Elegance in the tank. |
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I have dealt with several dozen completely bleached Goniopora over the last couple of years and the only place they could have obtained zooxanthellae from was the water column. Some of them have taken 3-4 months to even start regaining zooxanthellae while others have taken much less time. They all seem to be just as sensitive to light as they were previously. Once they get a zooxanthellae "seed", usually near the base of a tentacle, it begins to reproduce within the tissue and spreads from that area into other polyps nearby. I was kind of hoping that some of them might retain a different species of zooxanthellae which would be less light sensitive, but I don't think any of them did. I would guess that the fluorescent proteins play some sort of a role in the types of zooxanthellae a coral can host. That's why I previously suggested paying attention to the fluorescent coloration of the coral in relation to the light sensitivity of the zooxanthellae it was hosting. I've noticed subtle differences between similar looking species of Goniopora.
Also, IME, the amount of food that a coral receives when it is bleached becomes a determining factor on how quickly it regains zooxanthellae. Feeding them more, like once or twice a day, seems to speed up the process. Although, if the lighting is too bright for the coral to host zoox in the first place, then increasing the food supply doesn't help. They need less light or they will remain bleached.
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*Disclaimer: Due to variances in the perception of reality, the words you see may not be the ones I typed. Last edited by John Kelly; 07/24/2007 at 09:35 PM. |
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i have to say since i have a mixed reef i have the best algae of all types...montipora, acropora, mixed shrooms and ricordia, sinularia leather, maxima and derasa clam, claustrea colony, multiple zoos and paly's, gsp's, stylophora and birdnest colonies. I think i have the best of lost of zoox. And i dont think its interchangable. I beleive it is from the hosted zoox inside the elegance. I'm no scientist but i have been reading up and tagging along so i can kinda see the theories here so im gonna say im guessing
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#191
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updated pic of mine
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#192
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My system
I just wanted to share my tank with yaw.
The Tank 20H 15lb of Ocean Direct Caribbean Live Sand. 5+ lbs of live rock 100w Heater Bio-Wheel 200 Filter CPR Skimmer w/ surface skimmer CoolWorks Iceprob Chiller w/controller housed on the bio-wheel filter. (To help keep the temp. under 80) Lights 72w pc 50/50 on for about 5 hours Actinic on for 12 hours Lebos Lunar Tracker w/ 1 moonlight 27w dual actinic on for 12 hours As you can see the 72w pc lights are 15 1/2" above the tank. The only thing That I'm going to keep in this tank with an elegance coral is my 8 Polyp Dendro (5 are little babies). |
#193
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Why is my light so high off the tank
I have read this thread and pm elegance coral for advice on my 10 gallon tank that I had set up just for an elegance coral. The 10 gallon tank was a temporary thing, so now I have a 20 gallon. Any way, everything I had on the 10 gallon tank I just transfer it to the 20H except the skimmer and the bio-wheel.
Everything in the tank was great, so I went to the pet store and BAM they had a very healthy elegance coral. Elegance Coral told me what to look for. I put the coral in my tank and it did good, well, as far as I know because I was always at work. Any way one weekend that I was off I seen some brown stuff coming out off the one of the mouth in the middle off the coral, so I pm elegance coral and he explained to me what it was and what to do. We I had no way of moving my lights up off the tank so I place some door screen over the lights and it stop. Then one day I turned on the lights in the room that the tank was in and the elegance coral started puffing up really bad. I really don't know how long this was going on, but at the end off the elegance coral life, the flesh part of the coral in the middle was coming a part. I had no crabs or fish in the tank. So know from what I seen and learned from my first elegance coral, I set up the 20 gallon tank with the light so high, but I can bring the light lower to the tank. |
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"I was off I seen some brown stuff coming out off the one of the mouth in the middle off the coral"
The brown stuff could have been waste that the coral was expelling, this is a normal thing for corals to do, but it is very noticeable with LPS corals. Mine does it often, as well as contract to the point that i think it's about to die. Again this is all normal, and no need to freak over it. I'm just giving my advice, if you feel more comfortable with high lights, have them high... just don't keep them there good luck with the new elegance and feel free to pm me if you have any questions |
#195
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LPS that open up large, have large skeletons, lots of tissue, sensitive to a number of variables (lighting, water flow, feeding, chemistry stability,handling, placement, etc..),,, these types of corals DO NOT BELONG in nano sized tanks. It can be done, but it takes a lot of knowledge and experience to do it skillfully. Most people just rely on "luck" and only very few get lucky for very long. Go post a thread in various nano tank forums asking for proof (photographs) from people who have kept these types of corals alive for more than a year in their small tanks. You'll get none to barely any. A 55g or 75g is a decent starting point. The chemistry is easier to keep stable, the flow is easier to control, there is a greater range of water depth to work with, there is the potential for more planktonic food in the water column, filtration is usually better, there's less drastic specific gravity swing when adding top-off water or during water changes; and I'm sure theres more benefits. This post isn't directed at anyone who already has an Elegance or Goniopora or other difficult to keep LPS. It is directed at those who don't, and who want to "try" their "luck" with one of these corals. The first thing you NEED is a larger sized tank.
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*Disclaimer: Due to variances in the perception of reality, the words you see may not be the ones I typed. |
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Here's something about the collection of elegance corals.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2/feature2.htm |
#197
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The confusing part about Elegance coral husbandry is that we can not place them all in one category. They are all the same species, however their requirements may vary widely. With other corals like open brains, we know that good quality low level light will keep them all healthy. (at least all of them I have seen) The same can not be said about Elegance corals. There are individuals that can be perfectly healthy under very intense lighting. I have one of these corals myself. The vast majority of the corals coming into the hobby today can not withstand this light. We can not take our experience with one individual Elegance and use it as a guide for Elegance coral care in general. I wish it was that simple, but it simply isn't. When speaking of the species as a whole it can be said that they will survive in a very wide range of lighting, from very dim light to light that would be considered bright even for SPS corals. That's not to say that every individual has the ability to adapt to these extremes. Proper Elegance coral care has to be viewed on an individual basis. One Elegance coral may have very different requirements than the next. |
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Now, if I do get one to grow into a 75g tank that would be great. |
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Borenman shows two pics of corals swelling up and withdrawing their tentacles. He explains that this reaction is caused by two different things. How does he know this? There is no mention of a scientific experiment showing this. It is simply a guess, and a wrong one at that. The corals in the two pics are suffering from the same environmental influences I have been talking about in this thread for the past 3 months. There is also mention of these corals having problems with the parasitic Gal Crab. These crabs infest many LPS's. In all the Elegance corals I have studied I have only found one gal crab. The crab was removed and the Elegance is still healthy today. These crabs have nothing to do with "the problem" we are having with these corals. |
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