New Aquarium

[inadaze]

Hi,
I am not new to the hobby but I have had many bad starts in the past. My problem is always compatability. I am always told wrong info at pet stores about if some fish or invertabrates will get along with what I already have.
So I am asking for advice on what to start off my 50 gal reef with. I want it to hold soft coral, some small fish (nothing aggressive) and some invertabrates. What I am worried about is buying something that is not very compatible with many other species. Too often I found that I bought something only to hinder myself from buying too many other things. I know that not everything is compatible but if someone could start me with some suggestions I'd appreciate it.

I have crushed coral as substrate. 3 fluorencent 30 W(I think) lights - 2 white and one blue. Protein skimmer. two powerheads. quite a bit of live rock. Canister filter. and heater...ect...

thanks,
Jason

[MCary]

I would look at upgrading your lighting before adding any photosynthic corals.

If you haven't started yet a good idea would be to replace the crushed coral with aragonite sand. But I have seen a nice 500 gallon tank with cc that was fine. Just not the best.

Trying running your system with just the skimmer and liverock for filtration to start and don't use the canister. Or use the canister for running just carbon and take out all the sponges and bio media.

Mike

[CeeGee]

If you run that canister for carbon I would clean it thoroughly on a weekly basis. Those things get dirty quickly and will end up being a major problem down the road if not taken care of properly.

[nemo g]

just to be aware of the comming and hidden expenses...

heres a bit of wisdom i recently shared with a fellow reefer who had a lighting question:

just a couple of thoughts to get you started off right...

- you dont need metal halide anymore. do some research and youll find that anything can be kept with halides or t5's. each system has its positives and negatives and can ususally be reduced to an aesthetic preference.

take your time and read posts carefully. avoid the zealots of either camp as they tend to want to steer people to what they have.

however, stay away from pc if at all possible.

why? power compacts, although inferior, can produce results (i have montis growing well under a single 65w) but have major disadvantages compared to t5 or halides. the 2 obvious reasons are costs of bulbs, bulb life, and the lack of flexibility regarding light color (due to minimal variety and poor design). so eventhough pc can prduce good enough light, it is just outclassed by the other 2 options.

and yes you can build a canopy for halides, it just needs to be well ventilated. do a quick gallery search and youll find hundreds, if not thousands, of canopies with halides in them. like all things, if it is done correclty you will achieve good results.

a bit of wisdom...

- it took me a few years before finally taking the dive into reefing and the best and simpiest advice i can give is "Dont Skimp on the Heart of the Reef"

lighting and skimming are the most important aspects in this hobby. i know very well how we want to save money but if looked at logically it becomes absurd to worry about an extra $100-$300 on improved lighting and/or skimming.

first off, quality is pricey. so, if you are saving a lot of money, chances are its coming at a high price, performance. and light is the life blood of your reef, dont skimp here.

especially when you consider that you will easily spend $200 on food, filtration supplies, and testing gear, that will all be in the garbage within a year. that same $200 spent on lighting will imporve the beauty, stability, and health of your corals, plus maintain a far better resale value.

when setting up my little tank (29g), we decided to go slow. but by the time we got this "little tank" going, we were about $700 in the hole, with no light, no live rock, and no skimmer, and no ro/di filter.

too much energy is spent fretting the cost of quality lighting and skimming. so much so, that we often overlook how much we actually spend on all the "little stuff" (pumps, food, nets, buckets, thermometers, misc supplies, etc).

also, before you know it, you would have spent $1000 on just corals, frags or colonies. all which could be wiped out in a day. why not make a sound investment into the light needed by those corals.

here are some simple guidelines for defining "quality" gear:

- reflectors - some are designed better making more use of the light
- ballasts - some run better with certain bulbs than other
- ballasts - some are more efficient than others
- ballasts - some have better service and warranty
- bulbs - some hold their color and intensity longer than others


doing the proper research with these principles in mind, you will be able to find the best lighting that suits YOUR needs. and if you "choose wisely", you will wind up saving yourself more money in maitenance than you would ever have on the purchase price.

again, learn to look for and recognize quality information. too many rc users like to post "imo" or "ime" without giving factual reasons why and feel that just because they have an opinion they should share it. and when they do, it can be full of eroneous information, so make sure you double check.

as you can tell, i have kept "brands" out of the post to make this as objective as possible. for if you follow this advice, you will never have to ask "which skimmer?" or "which light?". instead you will ask "why is this good?" and "does x do y?". if you do, youll find the brands yourself

good luck

[inadaze]

Originally, I posted because I was curious what livestock to start with once my aquarium becomes stable enough. But now I guess I should take a step back.
When you say my lighting should be upgraded, what would you suggest? Are fluorescents not sutable? Should I add more?
Also, what is the negative side of using crushed coral?
Lastly, why do you suggest that I remove the bio media from the filter?

Thanks,
Jason

[OCDP]

Your lights don't need to be upgraded.... but I guarantee you that after a few weeks on Reef Central, seeing pictures of corals, and reef tanks.. you'll be like "damn, I need to upgrade my lights to keep these sweet colourful corals" TRUST US! I know right now upgrading sounds like the last thing you want to do. But I guarantee you, you will upgrade your lights, skimmer, whatever within a couple months.

Also know that if your happy with florescents, then keep them as is. But, the look of T5, VHO, PC, MH (in particular metal halides) is just much more natural and appealing. Everything pops and has lots of colour and it really brings your tank to life.

I would highly recommend staying away from crushed coral. I started out with this too , probably the worst choice I have ever made. It acts as a detritus bed... it just collects crap and more crap, and then more crap... and where does all that crap go? no where really. It just builds up... and then your left with lots of nutrients in your tank (which are no good at all) and you'll have algae growing and all that fun stuff.

Go with sand... you wont regret it... take your time, think things through, read as much as possible. You will kick yourself in the butt later if you don't do all your research and reading now. It pays off. Good luck.

[nm354]

Bio Media will become a nitrate factory in time. You spend lots of money on live rock to do what you are trying to achieve with bio media.
Since you are just looking to do soft corals I suggest looking into getting either T5 lighting or VHO lighting. As far as the crushed coral goes it does a poor job in the denitirfication process and tends to lead to algae problems and is just ugly IMHO.

[nemo g]

crushed coral considerations:

1. tends to hold much larger pieces of detritus and food as well as other particles, which will lead to nutrient problems.

2. you will limit yourself regarding fishes; there are numerous fish that either preer to live on or near the the bottom, sand, or actually filter feed using the sand (eat and spit it out). and others like to dig hide outs in it. unfortunately, most of these fishes are usually the ones that are most colorful, hardy, and least empensive in the hoby.

[tonypal85]

Sand: Yes you want to go with sand as your substrate! Much better than Crushed Coral for reasons that are mentioned above.

Lighting: Do take everyones advice and upgrade now! I promise that if you dont, you WILL in the future. It happened to me! With your size tank and what you want to keep, I would go with VHO's in my personal opinion. Check out the Icecap Ballasts. I think your tank is about 4 foot if im not mistaken. I think one of the Ice Cap Ballasts (dont know which one) will allow you to run 4 x 4 foot bulbs off of on ballast. However I could be mistaken, please check into that! ....Actually I just checked online and I believe you want the ICE CAP 660 ballast for your tank.

Skimming: Very essential that you get a good skimmer. Euroreef is very popular and makes a great product. However, a cheaper alternative would be ASM. I own an ASM, so you may think I am bias, however I feel that they do as good a job as a Euroreef. They are just made out of a cheaper acrylic.

Fish Selection: If you want some peaceful fish here are some that I would recommend.
Blue/Green Chromis - very peaceful, will usually school; buy in odd number though.
True Percula or Ocellaris: Typically peaceful fish, however if you want a pair, make sure you buy them as a pair!
Goby: many gobies are rather peaceful and some make for a nice addition to your aquarium, certain gobies will pair with a Randalls Pistol Shrimp, aka Alpheus Randalli, which is rather neat!
Angels: Im not sure if your tank is really big enough but I have had experience with Angels in the Genicanthus family and they have been pretty peaceful. I currently have a Lamarck Angel and he/she is peaceful and doesnt nip any of my softies. But you definately want to stay with Genicanthus! Some pygmy angels may be fine but I have heard that they may nip.
Cardinals: Banggaii's are very nice, get a pair
Blennies: lots of personality, I like the bicolor.
Wrasses: plenty of reef safe wrasses to pick from.

Im sure there are many more fish but there are just a few for you to think about. Personally I would make sure I ditched the canister filter first. Keep your live rock and skimmer as your main source of filtration. Then you can move on to stocking with fish. Of course you can always upgrade your lighting whille your tank is stocked with fish. But I would wait to buy any softies until you upgrade your lighting. If money is a big big factor, try the "Selling" forum and see if anyone is selling an ICE CAP 660 ballast.

[MCary]

If you've had trouble in the past, one thing I would recommend you try is a single type of coral. Soft, LPS or SPS. Each type generally has its own preferences. With exceptions of course, SPS for example needs very clean water, strong lighting and a strong flow, LPS like larger foods, moderate to strong lighting, still like a good flow but not as much as SPS, and soft corals need less light, less flow, I have heard (don't want to claim my second hand knowledge as fact, I'm an SPS guy), but I have heard they benefit from carbon filtration to reduce toxins, and some do well in more nutrient rich water.

By sticking to a single type you can taylor your system for them and maintenance and upkeep will be less and survivability will be better.

Please guys, don't flame and tell me about all the beautiful healthy mixed reefs out there. I've seen them. I'm only presenting an alternative and possibly an easier setup for a new startup.


Mike

[inadaze]

Wow. That was probably the best response I have ever had from any forum. Thank you all!

I will look into getting sand and changing my lighting first. I am sure you'll hear from me again as I start up. I just moved into my first house and now I can set up my aquarium without worrying about tearing it down. Great!

And if anyone else has any comments, please let me know!

Thanks,
Jason

[Marinemom]

Welcome to reef central. I'm sure that you will like it here. Go with all the info. stated above. It's good sound advice. I just wanted to say hi and welcome.

Marinemom