Lost or losing all my SPS - still not sure why.

[cwegescheide]

Originally posted by LobsterOfJustice
I'm really leaning towards some type of infection at this point. I moved a few of the corals to my girlfriends tank, and her SPS have started to receed in there as well (caps, poccilopora, green slimer, a few acros). She's pretty happy with me about that

OUCH!!!! Oh man... not good...

[LobsterOfJustice]

They use the same source water for topoff and water changes.

[HBtank]

But seperate RO/DI units?

Could your water source have changed? Such as in my city they will sometimes use chloramine, but not all the time, for which I specifically added a chloramine filter to guard against.

*edit* seems like someone already checked on that, but another call would not hurt. Check for any change... also make sure your chlorine filter is working still (if you don't have the water sit for awhile before using), there is a test for both for $15 at thefilterguys if you feel the need.

It would seem that if it is not the source water, it is something biological, either an unkown/unseen pest or bacterial/viral infection.

I hope all gets better, seeing those before and after shots are painfull

[LobsterOfJustice]

Same RODI unit.

Alright, so here is an update. After a few very large water changes, the recession seemed to halt on the SPS. They seem to have somewhat decent polyp extension. The few remaining are severely browned out. I bought a bubble coral and GBTA from LA. They did fine for a while (2 weeks maybe?), but I came home after thaksgiving to find the anemone detached, deflated, inside out sitting in the sand upside town. It hasnt recovered... I put it back, and a few days later it was detached again. The bubble has been extending less and less every day, and now there is brown algae growing on the patchy exposed skeleton.

I moved over two SPS corals from the girlfriends 37 which seems to be having the same problem (which were originally in my tank when the problem started)... one of them is slowly dying, while the other seems to be doing just fine.

I guess I'll keep waiting... thinking of throwing in the towel though.

[Ding2daDong]

Sounds like silicates from the ro/di maybe? I kinda have a similar situation with certain acroporas and I think this maybe the cause. Are you sure you gf corals are now getting worse after adding the frags from your tank?

-Matthew

[deep6er]

Originally posted by Ding2daDong
I have been experiencing the samething in some of my acroporas only. They have white patches in odd places and look exactly like your pictures. It is not a pest and have checked numberous times.

I have been experiencing low pH of 7.9 and think that could be the problem along with high nutrients.

hth will stay tuned.

Hope everything works out

-Matthew

I dont know if this is the problem. I have been having the same type of problem the last few weeks and my ph is at 8.2

[LobsterOfJustice]

I thought of two other possble causes.

I try to keep the air in the tank room ventilated to keep it cool. For the first few weeks after the move I kept all the windows in the apt. closed because it was hot out and I had the AC on. Once it started to get cooler I began opening the windows instead of using the AC. There is a window right next to the tank. I know that opening a window can cause pH change due to having fresh air evacuate the CO2 build up. Now I will admit, I havent checked pH in maybe 3 years. I kind of found that pH did whatever the hell it wanted to no matter what, and it never got too out of hand. I have been opening the window in the afternoon and evenings... I close it when I am gone for the day, and at night. Is it possible I am causing large pH swings by opening and closing the window? I dont remember exactly when I started opening the window so I dont know if the timing correlates perfectly with the dieoff.

Another thing... I did collect some stuff from the ocean locally and introduce it to the tank. I put a wild rock anemone in my frag tank (which disappeared), sargassum, grass shrimp, and snails. I'm not sure, but if I remember correctly this does seem to correlate pretty well with the timing of the beginning of the dieoff.

Ding, I'm not sure the corals in the 37 are dying because of the introduction of the corals from the 90. The smaller tank's dieoff did lag behind the 90 though, and has not lost everything.

[LobsterOfJustice]

The anemone is dead and the bubble is close behind it. The anemone seemed to be doing great for a few days, then I left for thanksgiving. I am also seeing more recession on at least 3 SPS pieces.

I think I am going to set up another tank in the apartment. I will use new LR and IO salt. The only thing in common with the tanks will be the air in the apartment and the source water. I will get a few SPS pieces from local reefers and see how they do. If they dont do well I know its something in the air or water in my apt. If they do well I will start making it more like my current tank and wait a few weeks between changes... swap out LR for the LR in my tank, start using IO/Oceanic mix, etc. If it gets that far, I will move the angel, rabbit, and tang over as well (at different times in an effort to isolate variables).

This is not fun. One freaking tank was expensive enough.

[notenoughtanks]

I'll jump in here with my experience. I have the acro bacteria(vibrio I think) and I found this can be easily transferred. I have given healthy frags to a few people, some survived, some gave their acros the bacteria. It is very infectious from my experience. It sounds like you have the same or similar thing. Although it is strange you say it affects lps and non acro sps as well, perhaps a different strain? You former sps tank now looks like mine did a couple months ago, a graveyard of its former self. I too upgraded to a new tank, perhaps this bacteria is released stirring up the sand completely putting it in the new tank? Or the obvious, getting it from trading? I'm not saying you have what I have, but sounds very similar to my experience.

[The Saltman]

If you run ozone shouldn't it kill any bacterial infection in the tank?

[five.five-six]

it won't kill it all, if you are running enoughh O3 to do that, then you are running WAY too much

[murphreef]

i read threw this thread quickly and im sorry for your losses.... im not sure what if anything u have found as a possible cause yet but i will fill you in to what happened to me a few years back....

when i first got into sps i had a 100g tank they did pretty good i was using natural sea water from catalina...

then i was going to the lfs by my house and they carried and were the owners of TAAM/RIO which made Ocean Pure Pro by Via Aqua... so they convinced me to switch to salt since it would be cheaper in the long run... so i thought ok and started using the salt not thinking much of it... well at the time i didnt put 2 and 2 together but my sps were doing horrible! they started with tip recession then some rtn'd some just slowly died but none would survive i mean none...

i was getting soooo confused/ angered i couldnt figure it out... i even bought a larger tank i setup to what i thought SPS's would love. more flow nice healthy rock new LS more lights....

all parameters always checked fine calcium 400+ alk 8dkh mg 1300....

so i came across a thread about 8 months into not being able to keep an acro alive that talked about salt mixes and bad batches containing very elevated levels of Borate... Borate is added into the salt mix to allow the salt when mixed to stay in solution and not cloud up due to the high calcium and alk levels... anyways when u measure alk u back out your Borate Alkalinity since this will add to your true alkalinity giving you an elevated reading...

OPP salt had a Borate level 3 times that of normal salt mixes meaning my Alk instead of truly being 8dkh like i thought for all that time was really closer to 6dkh!!!

i changed right then to Tropic Marin salt and since the first water change all struggling corals stopped dying and within 3 water changes they were regrowing and looking good... ever since then i have had healthy corals and it was all due to the alk being falsly inflated by the Borate....

sorry this was such a long description but i was hoping u may be able to use my info

[tmz]

Justin, I strongly suspect the salt mix and have heard of numerous problems like this, particulary with Oceanic salt being severely imbalanced. Imentioned this suspicion on the first page of this thread.

[murphreef]

Tom yeah i had a feeling something to those lines too i didnt read through the whole thread so i musta skipd ur reply but i think if he changed to a new salt and got some new corals it might be a lot better... it was crazy how after 2 water changes of 30G each on my 180 how things did a full turn around and corals were recovering so rapidly

[LobsterOfJustice]

The only reason I am hesitating with the salt mix is that I have been using it before the move for 2.5 years, and been using it since the move. Everything did great after the move for at least a month and layed down new bases, then the dieoff started.

But that said, I still do suspect the salt mix (or specifically the mixing of the two different salts). But I'm gonna go ahead with the new tank setup to test variables, but i guess I can also start using only IO on the main tank (I have bought new salt since the problem started because I'm going through it fast with large water changes).

[LobsterOfJustice]

Alright, incase anyone was wondering, my tank still sucks.

The bubble has died, recession slowly continues on what is left of 2 SPS. 1 of 2 unaffected frags has started recession. A coral I moved over from the girlfriends tank (was originally in my tank) has died (typical tip abrasion, sanded look). So as far as SPS, I have 4 unaffected: yellow porites frag, small millepora (which I moved over the the gf's tank, and then back), a very small frag of green acro (samoensis?), and purple encrusting montipora. These, plus a few large frags of poccilopora with a dead base, are pretty much the only SPS pieces I have left. The galaxea is still missing tissue between the polyps, but otherwise looks well. Zoas, kenya tree, clam, hammer, frogspawn and all motile inverts are unaffected.

I have started a series of waterchanges with IO salt (stopped mixing it with oceanic).

A few more things to think about...

I definantly have a nutrient problem, which is driving me nuts. Algae grows on the glass after as little as a day. As far as nitrates, my new API kit put them around 40. The salifert kit is hard to read, but my best guess was somewhere between 25-50. This is bugging me because I couldnt get nitrates in my last tank if I tried. There shouldnt be nitrates... too much flow in the tank for anything to settle and rot... barebottom frag tank with high flow... I even have powerheads in all the sections of my sump to keep crud from settling. I'm skimming pretty wet with an oversized skimmer. I guess I am feeding a lot though... I might cut back to once daily. I'm really not comfortable with that however, as I have 8 anthias in the tank. I know people say they are fine eating once daily, but I know its more natural and healthy for them to eat multiple times. I can't blame this on my new water either - RO water tests 0, as does freshly mixed batches of IO, Oceanic, and 50-50 mix.

Also, the angelfish is definantly picking on the corals. At the risk of sounding like one of those parents that can't admit their kids do anything wrong, I don't think he is the cause, I think he is picking because they are receeding. My main support for this is that corals in the gf's tank are receeding in the same fashion (abrasions, tissue thinning).

I'm pretty upset that the bubble and anemone died. I tricked myself into thinking I didn't need SPS, and that I could keep some hardier stuff, but that didnt even work. I DONT WANT A TANK FULL OF ZOAS .

[LobsterOfJustice]

Here are some pictures. The first 3 are from the gf's 37g.







These are from the 75: