My first real loss

[SWINGRRRR]

I know someone of you will point out 1000 mistakes I made, but the Cardinal fish died last night. He seemed fine, no Ich, Eating, etc. He was stuck to the drain for the CL.

Also, something ate a new piece of Candy Cane Coral. It was free so its no real loss, but makes me wonder for future purchases.

[Acro-Phobia]

When we take on the resposibility of caring for and raising other creatures, any loss is a personal loss. We have all been there and have all experienced those losses. The thing we have to do is learn from our mistakes and keep trying. The rewards of the hobby when it starts working right cannot be matched. Don't give up.

[chrisalmand]

Remember that you can do everything right and fish will still die. Just the way it goes.

[Bebo77]

do you have a cover on the inlet for your closed loop?

[JaredWaites]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11326661#post11326661 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisalmand
Remember that you can do everything right and fish will still die. Just the way it goes.

This is true for all wild caught fish, this is why we must force aquaculture on the hobby.

All wild caught fish are caught mostly with Cyanide being squirted into a hole, which forces the fish out and they are quickly netted and brought to the surface without time to decompress or anything. Then they sit in a holding tank and are quickly bagged and imported into the wholesaler. Then they sit there for another day or so and are promptly shipped out to an LFS where they are even more stressed out and are brought home with little hope of living.

I forgot the odds of a fish actually making it to the United States alive, let alone through the whole process and actually living, but it will sicken you. Most fish die because of the Cyanide and don't even make it to the wholesaler, which is why we are stripping our reefs of fish.

Anyway don't get down David, it happens to us all, the reason he was probably on your CL, was either you didn't have a cover over your intake, or he died and floated to the intake. If you don't have an intake cover, try using a PVC pipe with holes drilled all on the sides, about 1/4" on both sides. This will ease the suction and give the pump more surface area to pull from keeping fish from being sucked up, as well as snails, etc.

[SWINGRRRR]

I know things are going to die. Thats not a problem. I bought the fish at WW so I dont know about the Cyanide thing or not.

The inlet is a 1" PVC pipe about 9-10 inches long with Tiny holes drilled all over it.

I guess the reason I post my stupid experiences every day is to keep the board going. Things have seemd slow around here lately.

[FishF00d]

Not all fish are caught with cyanide. You probably aren't ever going to know if the ones at the lfs are but they all aren't caught that way.

As for fish dieing. I have had my share of fish die. Many for unknown reasons but I'd be willing to bet they had some kind of infection or desease, or even cyanide poisoning.

The one place I have never had a fish survive longer than a week after I bought it from has been Waterworld. I don't know why this is but I've decided not to buy anymore from them. I have purchased at least a half dozen from them over the years with no luck at all.

As to the fish that died. . I think I recall you saying it was a bangaii cardinal. If so wild bangaiis have a poor track record. All the lfs in the area get in wild bangaii cardinals because they are cheaper.

[SWINGRRRR]

Whats a good shop? Yall know my problems with Dave. WW seemd to be a good shop. I haven't tried Petland just cause of what I hear about them.

[FishF00d]

I'm not saying waterworld isn't a good shop. I'm just saying I have never had a fish survive when I bought it there, but I know others who have. I don't know why none of mine never survived but I bought a few from shadier places that turned out ok. If you don't go to aquaria or ww you are going to be hard pressed to find a good store.

I almost get sick when I walk through petland. Lots of the fish look in horrible shape. I have bought from them in the past but it was right when the fish got to the store. I put them in QT as well when I got home. Their prices have become kind of high recently as well and you can usually find a healthier fish at twice the size at Aquaria for a few bucks less.

Reef Scapes usually has healthy fish, but they hardly ever have any. I get the same story every time I stop by.. "we are getting a shipment in next week" and next week comes and they really didn't get much in.

[SWINGRRRR]

I have gotten in the habit of hitting the shops as soon as the shipments come in, or the next day. But most of the time, as Chris can tell you, I hardy know exactly what I am looking at just yet. Ill see something I like, come home research it, and when I go back, its gone. I am still learning, I guess it will just come with time.

[Redfish]

Unfortunately, whether it is a $10.00 or $500.00 fish you are not going to know how its is doing until it has been local for a week or so.

I purchase all of my fish thru Aquaria, just because I can get what I want went I want it at a very good deal, but I personally don't have anything against Richard and Steve at Waterworld.

The thing you have to be aware of with Waterworld is that their fish are kept at very low salinity to avoid disease. That creates a twofold problem for you. First, it can mask disease and second the acclimation period at home must be that much longer.

[DrHank]

I've had just the opposite of Drew. I've purchased 3 fish from them two of them have been doing well for over a year. The third would have probably been doing fine had he not chosen to go one on one with my daughters Jack Russell Terrier. No, the dog didn't jump in the tank. The fish decided to try carpet surfing.

I don't know how extensive cyanide use is but it would seem that the major wholesalers would not stay in business long if retailers consistently had large losses due to this practice.

[KADLETZ]

i think they do doc. quantitative loss, "time, distance, and method. whole salers account for these losses and always buy more then need because of it. cyanide works for mass catches, hook and line not so effective, nets and rocks have problems. but cyanide like jared was saying can go where hands do not.

[chrisalmand]

Every fish I have gotten from Aquaria has died..... Yet I have had the best luck at Petland. Strange.

[lobstergrabber]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11334910#post11334910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrisalmand
Every fish I have gotten from Aquaria has died..... Yet I have had the best luck at Petland. Strange.

If they can make it at petland for more than two days they are a strong specimen.

I have had great luck with water world. Never lost a fish from them due to health issues.

Rich

[KADLETZ]

swingrrr how about some pics!!

[SWINGRRRR]

I am letting some of the Zoas open up then Ill be able have some pics. This weekend is going to suck for me workwise. The parades and a bunch of other Holiday jobs. I have 2 17 hour days in a row, then scouts, etc,etc. As soon as I get a chance I plan to whore it up.

[JaredWaites]

Fishf00d, it doesn't matter if the fish arent' caught with Cyanide or not, that wasn't the purpose of my post.

The purpose of the post was just to inform him that most fish that are caught from reefs are caught using Cyanide although now some countries are outlawing it, there is still a blackmarket for fish caught using Cyanide.

It really depends on where your LFS is getting the fish from. Any type of fish from ORA is a little pricey, but worth the extra pennies as they are all well taken care of and are caught using ethical manners.

Also if your collecting fish at a depth of 100' feet and you don't let their swim bladder decompress as you bring them to the surface, the odds of them dieing are much higher. I'm sure you know this as your FWS, but still regardless our hobby has no remorse. Net caught fish, can still be unhealthy as the collectors have a lot on their hands as far as decompressing fish over a few hours. Most collectors use the hurry up and grab the limit for the day and go back tomorrow and do the same thing...its all about the money to third world countries.

I stress to people new to the hobby aquaculture, as this allows us to rely on other people and their tanks and specimens and not the ocean to provide everything we have in our tanks...it takes a little stress off of Mother Nature.