New tank check in. - Page 2

BigJPDC · #26 10/25/2006, 08:09 PM

I may have been confusing things - the sump return is a Mag7 and it's running great.

The CL spider under the sand will be fed by an external pump, right now I am fighting with the Mag9.5, and would like to first try and use hose. That genx pump is sweet looking, but the $35 shipping is a downer. It looks like the eheim fittings are metric, or 5/8"? What's up with that?

The plumbing has to be done before the rock goes in, and the LFS here that I got the LS from has what looks like nice big clean pieces for 7/lb. I was thinking about getting 50 or so pounds this weekend and starting work on the pillars I want to sculpt. I'd keep them in containers until I worked out the CL thing.

newreefbishop · #27 10/25/2006, 08:56 PM

Ok if you can wait like three days for the gen x pump.....I would recommend ordering it from marine depot, shipping is around 9 bucks if you do it ground ....as far as the ehiem 1262 at marine deopt has 1 inch inlet and 3/4 outlet, which should work with what you are trying to do, personally the longevity of the gen x pump cant be beat, and I would recommend it versus what "we" are working with right now.....

As far as the Live Rock....well if you are sold on it I would try to get rocks from a few suppliers, to get some bio diversity.....I got mine from basically two places..... one being a location in Orlando Florida and one being a local LFS......if I where in your position I would do this......

http://www.theaquariumonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=536
This is my primary location, 2.99 per pound for cherry picked Live Rock.....if you have questions about the quality look at my pics....and look at my brother tank
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...5&pagenumber=2

The second location I would highly recommend
http://www.oceanproaquatics.com/shop...oducts_id/2113

The first place cures the rock before shipping and packs great so you should have very little die off the second location pre-cures the rock as well with very little die off.....I have both in my tank as well as some from my LFS and a local person breaking down their which is ideal.

Once again just get the highest amount of bio-diversity possible ....tampabaysaltwater is also reportedly good but I have not personally used them.

Is there a local reef club in your area?

An let me know your thoughts once again this is just my opinion....

newreefbishop · #28 10/25/2006, 09:20 PM

Here is the rock the wife got in the box I used the cd for size reference

newreefbishop · #29 10/25/2006, 09:28 PM

Just noticed the cd that was the cd of our wedding music......we used it at the church lol SHHHHH dont tell the wife

BigJPDC · #30 10/26/2006, 08:27 AM

Well, there really isn't anything to be in a hurry about, is there? I'll look at marine depot and the other links you gave me for the rock - I'll have to see what the cost becomes when shipping is added vs. just heading down the street. The pics of your rock in the tank are awesome.

No word on a reef club for up here in VA, but I've only found one sw fish store so far, and am on the hunt. Pet-x doesn't count as a fish store IMO, I mean a small place run by an old guy with a big clean reef tank in the front.

I got the spaflex fittings done last night for the overflow, and will get some pics up as I swap that out, also to show my sump\stand dilemma. I'll have to build some kind of ledge for that gen-x pump to rest on and I think I am tempting fate too much with the way my electrical is run.

LOL on the CD thing.

jp

newreefbishop · #31 10/26/2006, 09:48 AM

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumd...s=&forumid=335

that is the link to a reef club in VA.....not sure how close to you they are but I would introduce myself and take it from there. Here in South Florida we have a few clubs, but the one good thing is we have alot of good reef stores to choose from....

BigJPDC · #32 10/27/2006, 06:26 AM

Looks like the Aquariumonline is the place to go for the rock, the shipping almost doubles the price up here to VA, but it's still cheaper that buying it locally. And a couple dollars a pound adds up when you buy a hundred pounds of something.

You don't have a coupon code for free shipping do you? =)
Too bad they don't also sell that genx pump too.

I have to figure out if it is best to order today or monday, so the rock doesn't sit at UPS over the weekend.

BigJPDC · #33 10/27/2006, 06:28 AM

The update on the tank is that I think my water is clearing up!

My sump water level had lowered to the point that the pump was sucking air, so I added close to 2.5 gallons of top off water last night as well, it looks like I am evaporating a gallon every two days, so I should be thinking about ATO one of these days.

newreefbishop · #34 10/27/2006, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BigJPDC
Looks like the Aquariumonline is the place to go for the rock, the shipping almost doubles the price up here to VA, but it's still cheaper that buying it locally. And a couple dollars a pound adds up when you buy a hundred pounds of something.

You don't have a coupon code for free shipping do you? =)
Too bad they don't also sell that genx pump too.

I have to figure out if it is best to order today or monday, so the rock doesn't sit at UPS over the weekend.

Give em a call, and tell them what size you are looking for after you place the order. The owner is extremely helpful and will pick out the best pieces.....shipping is also good. I believe they only ship there stuff next day....or 2 day, not sure because when I ordered it took one day for ground because I live in South FLorida. In any case I highly recommend them, and know you will be pleased. Also call them on the pump......they may carry it. Once you get the rock it will be pretty much cured and with the weather the way it is now you should have minimal die-off during shipping as such I recommend letting it sit for a week and work on the design of your sump, which I would love to see pics of.

After which, well you will see a natural progression of algae....but because of how good the rock is it wont be too bad....after a week get 30 or so hermits....blue leg and red scarlet....and about 40 snails....and some stars....brittel stars.....you may just want to order the package from live aquaria...if you local store doesnt carry em. This will control algae in all its forms and continue to prepare your tank for coral and fish.

Ive rambled enough so if you have any questions let me know....also....POST SOME PICS

BigJPDC · #35 10/27/2006, 03:45 PM

Hello Friday! All fish all the time now (except for all the wife's projects). Looks like using 540 for a picture size is working nicely.

Here is the sump situation. It is a 20H and IMO needs to be longer to be effective but is all I could fit in the stand. You'll see how the entire overflow section is taken up by the Octo NW150. I actually had to cut my baffles out and redo them to add an inch so it would fit. The other thing I screwed up was that the return section baffle is only 2 inches higher that the first one, and IMO again, I should have made that much higher so that evaporation would be less of a weekly factor. The good news is that I simulated a power failure and can easily handle the siphon from the SeaSwirl.

tangent - in fact, I want to work something into my return plumbing so that I can leverage the pump siphon for water changes - power off, suck 5 gals diverted to a container, replace water and turn pump back on. 2-4 hours later power down and suck more 5 gals. Just think if I plumbed that return through the wall to the basement and didn't have to get wet to do a water change . . .

This one shows the 1.5" pvc I used to run the power cords. My intent was a waterproof solution that would maximize space under the stand, but what happened is that all the connections are at the sides, including the DJ power center, so I have really created two points of failure for splashes. I need to further route things somehow.

jp

BigJPDC · #36 10/27/2006, 03:53 PM

NRB - gonna order the rock on Monday or so. I have to get the return and CL finished and tested and off my plate. When that's done I will know for sure if the Mag9.5 will work or not, and if not, then I'll order the genX and work more pvc magic to create dual spray bars in a tub to hold the LR.

Another goal is to fabricate something that will hold a mj600 in a Brute trashcan or home depot homer bucket. Those suction cups are worthless to start with, much less inside a rounded container.

Cleaning crew - are you sure about that selection? I've read too much here over the past year that is bad about hermits and starfish to do it in my tank. I would think that the cleanup crew I'll go for is a bunch of cerith and nassersomethings.

cheers!
jp

BigJPDC · #37 10/27/2006, 06:28 PM

ugh - swapped out the spaflex and it is creating some major disturbance on the sump. The baffles cut down the bubbles but it's noisy.

I have a feeling that the penductor-shaped end of that spaflex hose is the cause of the bubbles. Not sure what to do here or if I should go back to a hard plumbed overflow exit, maybe with a series of 45 and 90 elbows to slow down the water and cut down bubbles.

Something new for today is that I now have the return wide open and have no flushing noise. So the slimecoat must have increased the gph of the MegaFlow high enough to handle it all.

I just can't wait to see this sand under the rockin' T5's I have waiting.

jp

newreefbishop · #38 10/27/2006, 10:30 PM

Ok where should I start......first of its a beautiful setup.

Lets start with the cleaning crew....

I will go based on personal experience, as well as what I have read and seen in established tanks....once again this is just my opinion.

20 - Cerith Snails
10 - Nassarius Snails
15 - Mexican Turbo Snails

All those snails eat poo and whatever else is uneaten as well as algae....

15 - Blue Leg Hermit Crab - These clean your rocks and crevices of poo and and algae....gosh I love saying poo makes me feel like a kid again

10 - Scarlet - the also do an extremely good job of cleanup these are the best so may be a little more expensive

Now based on experience you will lose a few snails here and there to the hermits if you dont have shells for them to change, but honestly for me its a small price to pay for a clean tank. I recently lost most of my hermits during a test, (ich test) and I have noticed a change already.

The starfish can wait till you see good algae growth....but something like a Burgandy Linckia would be very effective.

As far as the live rock staging container....just lay it on the bottom as long as water is moving rock will be fine.....

The sump looks great, but as you said tight with that huge skimmer (Im so Jealous). I also have a pretty big skimmer, but had to hang it on back of my sump/fuge, because I wanted to have a fuge.....which brings me to my next point if you want to do that, have a fuge that is plan it now....lol you dont want to have to tear things down to do it later.

Overall some mighty fine work there mighty fine.....under my tank is a mess relatively speaking. Do you have space in another room behind tank or something that you may be able to house other equipment, auto top off, reactors, etc? That would be great for future plans.

newreefbishop · #39 10/27/2006, 10:31 PM

Oh one last thing....so far you have done your research, and I definately give you kudos, this does not look like your first system...and I am definately impressed with your patience.

BigJPDC · #40 10/28/2006, 07:17 AM

Thanks for all the kind words nrb, that means a lot from someone with so much experience! Some of the patience I had nothing to do with - I took a job transfer from NY to DC and it took us nine months to sell\buy\relocate, so it was either micro-manage research prototype everything or just pout becuse I couldn't add water and sand and actually glue any of the fittings together. =) The fun part is how many things I am changing anyway now that we are live.

I am warming up the wife about using that space in the stairwell behind the tank but don't want to push my luck just yet. =)

You have me rethinking my clean up crew now, except for the star! =) Snails can't pick into rock crevaces, can they? Good point.

What about that overflow line? That piece of spaflex cost me $22, so I don't want to cut it up if I don't have to but it is stupid loud - got any ideas?

jp

BigJPDC · #41 10/28/2006, 07:48 AM

Man taking pictures of the tank is a PITA, with the flash it looks crappy and without all you see is the rest of the room reflected - I'll have to figure that out too.

Another update is that the water is really clear now. I think a 5g water change this weekend will finish it off. I noticed that my sg is down from 1.021 to 1.015 - is that from topping off with rodi and not saltwater, i.e. does it gradually drop until you do a water change? lol the swingarm hydrometer said 1.019 at first, until I banged it on the counter - maybe it's time for a refractometer? =)

I tweaked the SeaSwirl outlet fitting as well - it's one of those 'Y' shaped things. I cocked it so that one of the points is pointing even with the water line and the other is slightly downwards. I can already see agitation on the sand and I am thinking this will cause a siphon break sooner than before as well.

jp

newreefbishop · #42 10/28/2006, 08:59 AM

Actually Im in the same boat, when I started my build I was in a pretty stable position, but company tanked, just got back to the point where I was before, things are definately moving along as you can see now. The wife will come along, my wife was in the same spot, and I explained to her very early that if we want to go out of town for any extended period of time I have to build a COMPLETE habitat. Or we can just let thousands of dollars go to waste. She agreed...lol

Anyway I think I may be doing a similar thing as you, behind my tank are stairs with a "storage" room under it. I will drill a 2-3 inch diameter hole to accomodate, piping, as well as and power cables. In that room, I will be housing auto top off, and dosing equipment as I stated before, and MAYBE a backup power supply. I may also have a small frag grow out space......still thinking about that one....

As far as the salinity thing thats the first time I have heard that. The hydrometer is definately no totally accurate though. I would think about getting a refractometer. Dr. Foster Smith has them for 40-50 bucks. Worth ever cent. if you have the skimmer running it could cause a drop in the salinity, but I dont see how it could do that huge of a drop, When you do your water change try to bring it up at that point. I belive you said a 5 gallon change was in order. Get those 5 gallons of new water to 1.029 or 1.030 which once in tank should be diluted and bring everything back within nominal ranges. I also believe the hydrometer may be of. So test multiple times and get an average. Also try to get the tiny bubbles out of the hydrometer, as this will give false readings.

Anyway let me know how things go. As far as pictures....I suggest mayking the room as dark as possible, and running lights in the tank, then snap pics.....daytime lights outside of the tank will cause reflections.

newreefbishop · #43 10/28/2006, 09:03 AM

As fasr as the tube, I brother "rolled it up on the bottom of the sump, so that gave bubbles time to slow down and move to the top of the tube. I actually use rubber hoses for the under tank plumbing. I will be changing that on my return pump, to PVC. A slime coat will build up on the inside of the hoses, but it may take a couple weeks.

BigJPDC · #44 10/30/2006, 08:22 AM

Lots to update about.

The spa-flex overflow was basically making my sump look like a hottub, even though it quieted down after the slimecoat developed I guess. And it was translating into a lot of microbubbles in the tank, no matter how I coiled the hose up and around the Octo.

So, I thought I had read about this somewhere here over the past year, and thought I would give it a try. I now have the return hose connected to a PVC 'T'with a section of pipe long enough to break the water surfece, effectively returning the bubbles into the air while maintaining the water flow.

Water and bubbles gently gurgle up to the top of the pipe and trickle over. It's the first time I can see perfectly into that section of the sump. The next thing I did was to replace the 45 at the top with a '+' shaped piece, so water trickles out of both sides, and it's even quieter.

Not knowing enough about fluid dynamics, I am sure there would be a sweetspot for length and backpressure and all, but this is working great. I was sure I had my microbubble issues resolved - until I fixed the closed loop and put the light box together . . .

jp

BigJPDC · #45 10/30/2006, 08:26 AM

note that only excess water trickles out of the '+'. The T at the bottom is open allowing the force of the water from the overflow to pass through and in the sump. I still have my Mag7 wide open and have no gurgling or flushing.

I am sure there is a pipe diameter and length which would equalize the pressure and have nothing but air coming out of the top. I'll save that kind of fine tuning for another day.

jp

BigJPDC · #46 10/30/2006, 09:41 AM

To the loop.

What a drag this would have been since I have the plumbing buried in the sand.

I redid the entire thing, to use hose as far as I could from the Mag9.5. The challenge therefore became how to anchor the intake section. I decided to use of all things the suction cups that came with my stealth heaters.

The return section of this plumbing would hold itself up nicely, since it would be anchored in the spider in the sand. I assembled and painted everything Saturday and then waited until last night to hook everything up.

When I turned the Mag on there were three simultaneous explosions of bubbles in the tank, and then the flow began. It was unreal. NRB you were exactly right, they are all cranking away and creating equal sized dunes in front of the outlets. If anything, the back-right outlet seems to have the least amount of flow, but negligibly so.

No kidding here - the noise from the Mag9.5 is undetectible, it is on a mousepad at the back of the stand and held up by the kinks in the hose. It adds nothing to the total sound footprint of the setup.

I am having trouble getting my camera to take pictures of the inside of the tank, so don't have a good one to show yet of the dunes. My gut tells me that the sand dunes are an indication that my outlets are too deep in the sand and need to be raised up 1/2". Oh boy won't that be fun.

Any opinions on how high to have those outlets, or if it will be OK to aquascape around the current outlet height?

jp

newreefbishop · #47 10/30/2006, 07:38 PM

Looks good....I would leave them be, once you get your rock, the dynamics of everything will be a little different. The flow patterns will burn energy on the rocks...which wont move....so no dunes

BigJPDC · #48 10/30/2006, 07:54 PM

good thinking nrb, before I put the rock in, I'll push the sand out around the perimeter of the tank and leave the middle for rock.

Oh man do I have microbubbles, from teh return and the CL. Tomorrow I'll detail the leak situation.

jp

BigJPDC · #49 10/31/2006, 08:44 AM

So I spent some time with my head in the stand, and I have isolated the leak. It was not where I thought it was, but I found it here: Note that this was before final assembly, so there are hose clamps in place.

Background:
I had it in my head that I had to plumb the Mag drives over the outlet size and even though it was a total bust on the Mag9.5 as I have documented, I did it anyways here. I am plumbing a Mag7 to 1" up and through the MegaFlow. That required me to build a bulkhead using sched80 male and female, with the gasket that came with the orginal Megaflow 3/4" bulkhead. That is not leaking whatsoever, it is the next connection, where I go from sched80 to sched40 pvc, then to a barb and to the return pump.

This is the only place where sched80 meets sched40. and my only leak. There must be something about that kind of bond that isn't happening.

The solution is obvious - rebuild that small section using all sched80 components and if there is a special sched80 glue then use it.
The scary part is undoing the bottom of a bulkhead and hoping that the seal doesn't break, sending the entire contents of the MegaFlow spraying over my stand. I will have no way to direct the flow once it is opened up.

I have to fix this before moving on to my microbubble mess, and I am hoping that this is the source of my return bubbles.

jp

newreefbishop · #50 10/31/2006, 09:19 PM

Now that sounds like a difficult thing to overcome, as far as the plumbing, the microbubbles are easier to overcome. All you have to do is slow the flow out of the outlets enough to let them disipate. It would be even easier if you had a sump/fuge....chaeto eats all that to pieces....lol

The only other cause could be the pump itself....but they should gradually decrease one slime, goop, etc builds in pump which wont happen till the rock is added. Give it time....and dont really start stressing about the bubbles till after the rock is in.